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There's really no need to be concerned about that. Rizzo's clock has started, and Vogelbach is only in Boise. A decently positive case scenario puts him in AA in say late 2014, and he might be there in 2015. I understand your point, but a lot can happen in 3-4 years.

You know, I think the idea that it's breaking balls that are giving him problems has been overstated. In short, he's basically had a crap of a season so almost everything is giving him problems, but I think the arguments that the BA staff has been putting out is probably the best answer out there for why his issues have been that exacerbated, and that's basically that his swing is too mechanical now, and since he's too disciplined, he'll get into deep counts, but then end up chasing borderline pitches that he needs to swing at to protect, but can't get to because his swing is off. I mean, it seems like he's missing on fastballs quite a bit these days as well, and his bat speed hasn't exactly died. Keep in mind a distinct difference between Corey Patterson and Brett Jackson is that Corey was a hacker. I defended him a bit, but he was a hacker. Brett's aggressive, but he's got a far better eye, light years better, than Corey did. If Corey had Brett's eye and discipline, the story of his career might've been dramatically different. ______ On Vitters - I think people are mildly curious why the Cubs placed a high emphasis on find a young 3rd baseman, and hence why there's some suggestion that he could be moved. When you factor in that the most optimistic defender of Vitters defensive ability could only argue that he might be average at 3rd, and I think that's why a lot of people wonder. I wouldn't be stunned if they moved him if the right deal came along. That said, if I had to take a guess now, I think a more likely scenario is that IF the Cubs don't like him at 3rd (and they very well could opt to give him a look there), they might ponder him in LF again.

I don't see a point of this. He's a nice platoon option. You can find a use for a cheap guy like that, or another team might. Now, there's no more dreaming of a big trade, but maybe some team offers you a low A gamble this offseason, when teams can sit back and take a deeper breath to assess their needs and assess how guys can fit. If you can get some sort of gamble for LaHair, why not? And maybe they decide, hey, let's keep him around as a cheap bench bat, rather than wasting money on a FA bench bat (if they felt a need to add one).

Most of the articles seem to suggest that they are contemplating Brett up soon, and fundamenally, I'm apt to agree with your thinking and what it seems like the Cubs FO is debating, and that is, will a change of scenery help him out? A demotion is pointless now, considering his age and the fact that he's been okay in AAA, but it almost seems like a poor idea to let him keep digging away at AAA. I almost feel like you either call him up, or you perhaps shut him down and send him to Arizona to work on trying to make the swing ... for lack of a better term right now ... smoother. With Vitters, I think you want him getting everyday PT to work on his defense at 3rd, and I don't think you want him up at the bigs on a trial basis for that right now. You can trial him in September, a month for now, but I think you keep him in the minors for now and get him work, so I guess I am agrreeing again.

A boatload. Even if Byrnes is close to this front office, I just don't see it. I think they are going to want power arms, and we don't have many to begin with. If they look positionally, it wouldn't surprise me if Brett Jackson intrigued them (for the same reasons that our own FO may be intrigued with Brett), but it would obviously take more than Brett to land Headley. I am a big Headley fan. People seem to forget that he had good raw power, and that he adjusted his swing for the environment. I am not a huge Vitters guy, but acknowledge that he has improved (although I have always defended his ability to be passable (by no means does this mean average ... more below average but not horrendous) defensively for a couple years if the bat played). That said, for what it might cost to land Headley, I'd rather see Vitters for a year, or see if Stewart can heal.

another hit for marco. Looks like he's on a nice run. As a side note, interesting splits for him. Struggles badly away and with the bases empty, along with issues against lefties. Edit: And once again, after I praise him ... he doesn't do squat offensively the rest of the game.

dew, it seems highly doubtful that we can get a high upside major league ready arm and a high upside low level arm (assuming by high upside, you mean better than mid-rotation ceilings). That's just a gigantic package, and while it's not impossible, few teams give up that type of package in a deal (and most systems don't really have 1 of each ... a couple systems come to mind as possibilities). It's the type of monster package that I just don't see a team giving up for Garza, without long term control. The closest thing I can think of would be the package the Nationals gave up for Gio Gonzalez this winter (AJ Cole, who has struggled, was viewed as a high upside low level arm ... Peacock was a more debated talent, but some viewed him as a high upside upper level arm), and the Nats got multi-year control of a SP in his prime. If we can get one high upside arm in a Garza deal, close or far away, I think it'll be fine if the other piece is a solid asset like a Hutchison.

borderline intrigue, for lack of a better term right now. Good raw power, defense at 3rd is ... eh ... and may head to a corner OF/1st type role as he moves up. That said, swing is a bit loopy/long, so he has questionable contact ability. If he can fix that, without sacrificing power, then he might have a shot.

I understand the idea of setting expectations lower on Garza now, since he's being dealt in the offseason. But ... as one of the better arms likely to be moved, I really hope we get a bit more upside than Hutchison or Nicolino, even if that means gambling on some high upside low level kid that's 3-4 years away. That'd be a very disappointing package. I'm not saying the talent should be better, but I'd rather gamble on a different type of arm than Nicolino, if at all possible, to get some upside in that package. Hutchison looks like a good number 3, solid end of the rotation type. Nicolino's more a back end of the rotation type guy. ______ To piggyback off davell for a moment, sorta ... The weak FA market means if they want to make multiple key moves to get some non-short term assets for the clubs (that is, guys you think could be core pieces in , some of it would have to come through the trade market. Leaving the pen aside for a moment, I'm not sure we have the ability to really address our needs through the trade market. I doubt we could land a TOR type arm in the trade market, as I don't see them giving up a prime piece like Baez. 3rd base? If Vitters isn't the answer, our chances of landing a significant upgrade, say, a Headley type, seem debatable. Headley's price may come down a bit (and I am a fan of Headley), but it was exorbitant this deadline, so it's hard to imagine it coming down dramatically. It's just hard to imagine giving up a prime piece. I can't think of who else that might be available at 3rd, tbh. Two side notes: a) I'm not all that keen on BJ Upton because of Brett Jackson. This isn't a pro-Brett comment, but more a negative opinion on BJ. b) dew, the issue isn't "waiting until we are WS capable to add pieces". At least, it's not for me. This isn't coming out as clear as I want it to, but it's the best I can do for now in the limited time. Clearly, you can't wait until then to build a core. The question is, are the pieces to add guys that can be key pieces of a core without their contracts being a concern when you can compete. You don't want to add a guy this year, on say, a 5 year deal, when the chances to compete for the playoffs in 2013 are slim, unless said player can be a meaningful part of a core in say, 2015. You don't want to take away the flexibility down the line, when that flexibility could be significant. I would have significant worries about guys like Upton/Sanchez (Upton moreso than Sanchez). If you could get them on shorter deals, then by all means, let's do it if we can and Ricketts allows.

Whether or not we suck is one thing, but if the question is how long do I expect them to have "full rebuild" years (years where they basically give a half-hearted focus to being competitive at the big league level, with Maholm/DeJesus types), then my answer would be only one more. Their intent was, seemingly, to clear the deck and rebuild the upper levels of the farm system, thus, when they are able to be competitive, they'll have the farm system to augment the big league squad, whether it is through trades or through internal help. The upper levels of the farm system won't have much talent until 2014 (if all goes well). I mean, the bulk of the talent is still below A ball, with Baez leading the charge in A ball. Now, if for some reason, the farm system runs into big problems, by 2014, the deck will also largely be cleared of contracts, and they will have had 2 drafts to restock the lower levels with their type of talent, so I would still expect a more serious effort (to compete) by then.

Villanueva and Hendricks have been assigned to Daytona. Brigham to Tennessee, and Chapman to Iowa to start. One odd side effect of the Villanueva bump was Cerda going back to AA. One would think he's not that important anymore to have to move back up.

Pin-Chieh Chen has been crazy hot. Good sleeper guy. I said this the other day, but I think he's a possible breakout candidate next year, when he gets to the FSL. He's not the heavy slap hitter that was once thought (although his worst month this year was when he had his highest grand ball percentage).

I'm not even advocating gutting the farm system or spending like crazy in the offseason - I think either would be a bad idea. But making a concerted effort to improve both the major league roster and the minor league system would be ideal. Spend some money at the ML level (BJ Upton would be ideal, also maybe Anibal Sanchez) and make use of the large budget and high picks in the draft and IFA - basically the "parallel fronts" idea that Hoyer talked about when he and Theo took the jobs. Make the entire system better for 2013 and maybe contend if a few things go right. It doesn't have to be video game rebuild or gut the system and spend like mad. There is middle ground and that's where I think we should have been from day 1. Couple quick points - a) It's going to be hard to gut the farm system anyways in that, the top raw talents are all far away, and there's only a handful of guys in the upper levels with decent-solid value. I don't see them trading for "nice" pieces if they can sign stopgap FA's instead, so if they make any moves, I think it'd be for a major piece, and I just don't see our chances at landing said piece as that high, due to the lack of upper level chips, unless Baez is forked over. b) I'm fine with this year, and in general, I'm fine with the idea of another bad season, much as it would suck. I do believe that if you rebuild, you should do it the right way, and I don't believe that guys like Anibal Sanchez/BJ Upton make much sense IF they aren't planning on augmenting things further (not hard to see Brett Jackson do a reasonable facsimile of what BJ Upton can do ... perhaps that's more a testament to BJ Upton than Brett, and while I'm a fan of Anibal, if they aren't intending to push, adding him for multiple years might not make a ton of sense, considering there's already some whispers about him). Anyhow, that isn't the point. I do wonder what the reaction would be, from the fanbase, if they are clearly not making an effort to compete next year, outside of amassing short term assets. I think people were fine with it this year because of the state of the team, but I wonder if they will get backlash from the fanbase if they don't make some sort of tangible effort that fans can see. I also wonder if Ricketts would be that happy about a 2nd full rebuild year.

Yes. But, in all honesty, I think Houston's already put a plan into motion that allows them to do that much better than what we can even attempt. Lots of time left until next season. Short of trading Rizzo, Castro, and Shark, I can't see us getting as bad as them. But ... let's take a step back for a moment. This could be a horrible rotation next year. In an ideal situation, Samardzija is more of a 2/3 type, but he could be the top arm. He's better than Norris, but not by that much. Travis Wood, based on this year being very similar to 2 years ago, should really be an end of the rotation arm, and yet, it's not hard to imagine him being one of the better arms in the rotation. Jon Singleton is their Anthony Rizzo, and maybe he produces when he gets to the big. I'm not saying it'll definitely be horrible, but it's not hard to envision a really horrendously bad season if they decide to go for more stopgap types in FA.

I'd be pretty surprised if Brett Jackson and Ian Stewart are still in the organization next spring. Traded for arms seems most likely. The payroll is going to be that low. Too many cost-controlled players to really see how it isn't. I'm going to be fairly surprised if Brett Jackson is moved this off-season. It's almost over-looked how he's really improved defensively. You don't give away potential solid CF's with his power unless you get a quality arm that's ready, and it's hard to imagine anyone is forking over a quality arm that's ready for Brett. I think a more likely scenario was what TT posted a few days back, that the organization deals Vitters to address needs. In all likelihood, I expect them to keep both Vitters and Brett Jackson, and sign veteran arms in FA's on short term deals, akin to the Maholm move, to fill any holes, provided they don't make a big splash in FA or pick up ready arms in a Garza trade.

I've been pushing this awhile, but I think Alberto Cabrera could be the closer for the club in a couple years. The only caveat now is what happens with Arodys, as Arodys fastball/breaking ball combination is a clear notch ahead, but a) Cabrera's stuff isn't that far behind, and he might have more consistent velocity out of the pen. b) Here's hoping Vizcaino can make it as a starter

Marco has a nice little thing going. Of course, last time I said that, he ended up having 2 K's. It's odd (well, not really, since it happened last year), but Dae-Eun Rhee seems to get better during the summer. He actually had a decent-solid July (3 solid starts in b/w) and looked like he was off to another decent-solid start. Still ... season's aren't only in the summer. Curious what velocity reports sound like, because it was around last July when his velocity really kicked up a notch.

Villanueva has been at A+ all season. ah, thanks. for some reason, i thought he was in A ball.

Sure, there's a value to elite pen arms, but I'd argue that the combination of Brett being an above average defensive centerfielder (really, it's been somewhat lost, albeit justifiably, that reports on his defense seem to be better than last year's) and Arodys being an under-the-knife arm with a high probability for pen duty (again, I personally expect the Cubs to try him as a starter, just saying the outlook as of now) should give Brett a bump. But that's me. At the end of the day, it'd take a rare elite pen arm for me, personally, to rank ahead of a guy like Brett, even with all his faults. I do love Vizcaino, though, and if showed an ability to carry a solid workload as a starter next year, that would change the equation for me.

Oh you know, I completely forgot about Baltimore's recent draft class when assessing that system. Actually, I loved their draft, and so yeah, I could see them "on par" with us. While I think Kline is eventually a pen arm, there's too much tantalizing ability to not try him as a starter (straighten him up a bit to see if he can get more movement, physically could add more velocity, so if the change comes along, ta da).

Interesting. I have been a gigantic Vizcaino fan ... but I am hard pressed to slot him ahead of Brett Jackson for the reasons I noted above, but it's interesting that so many have him locked there. If I took a stab now, I'd go Baez gap Soler, Almora gap BJax, Vizcaino, Szczur, Vitters gap Candelario, gap Alcantara, Pierce Johnson (could go a number of ways) _____ As interesting as Christian Villanueva is, it's somewhat easy to overlook that his offensive profile is very, very similar to Alcantara's, Arismendy actually walks a similar rate, and has struck out, % wise, a bit less this year. Now, the reports on Alcantara are that he's a bit of an aggressive hitter, to say the least, and I'm not exactly certain if Villanueva needs to tighten the strike zone, or if he's a bit of a hacker that extends the zone. Alcantara's got better speed. So ... similar offensive profiles, I'll take the potential shortstop in my ranking, as of now. Edit: for some reason, I thought Villanueva was in A ball, but I still think I would take the potential shortstop at a similar level over the 3rd baseman, as of now. I don't really like Pierce Johnson there, but I think the argument for him is a polished college arm with mid-rotation ceiling gets the benefit of the doubt, but can understand a lot of other options here. I'm surprised that Szczur is fairly low on most lists - plus defensive center fielder, good baserunner, and is showing an improved approach. Even if the power never comes around, he could still make a pro career out of what he currently has to offer.

I like Vizcaino a ton, but I wouldn't put him ahead of Brett Jackson right now. He's coming off TJ, the innings workload is enough of an issue to put significant doubt on the idea of whether or not he can become a starter (I fully expect the Cubs to try him as one, just saying that there is justifiable doubt now, particularly when you factor in that his clock has started). I'm also not completely sold that Villanueva deserves to be that high, but then again, that's also the weak area of our system (bottom of the back 10). I would, though, put Szczur much higher than you have. Candelario is struggling offensively, and Szczur's potential to be a plus center fielder, IMO, puts him close (or ahead) of Vitters. _____ I think we are ahead of Baltimore. Bundy would top all the lists, but I think Baez would be 2nd right now, ahead of Machado, and we are deeper. I thought Boston and the Padres systems were over-hyped last year, and I still feel that way. Not sure if we are ahead of them, but wanted to get that shot in on those two systems.

Wait what? I've been busy all day. Was there a legitimate rumor that Archie Bradley was offered? I'd take the gamble on Bradley and scrubs for Garza, but Bradley/Corbin would've been a knockout package that I doubt could be duplicated. _____ General thought is that it is what it is. The injury was a factor, and keeping him and seeing if he can rebound, rather than selling him on the cheap, made sense (provided that above Bradley rumor wasn't true ... that's a heck of a deal). I expect Garza moved this winter, and in all honesty, 2013 feels like it's going to be a crap year (hard to see them dealing Garza and making a play for a big FA pitcher). At least, they are following this "process" in the right way, rather than how Boston is now burdened with bad deals, but two bad years is going to really suck (outside of a chance of getting Rodon).

I like Sanchez a lot, but I'm worried that he's headed for the pen long run. His raw stuff is better than Syndegaard's (probably), but I'm not yet convinced that he'll have the command/consistency to be a quality, top level starter.

My quick thoughts (haven't read anything here, so I'm guessing a lot of what I'll say has been said): Overall .. okay. If someone had told me that, at the start of this "process", a Dempster rental would net a borderline top 100 guy at a position of weakness in the system, I'd be pleased. Villanueva probably gets put with Baez, pushing Geiger to a 1st/corner OF role, which is a better fit for Geiger. I'm not that excited about Hendricks, but he sounds like an arm that can fit in the upper levels. It's only a disappointment because of what we knew could've been with the Delgado deal, but then again, that was always a possibility. I'm a bit annoyed with Dempster, after giving him the benefit of the doubt for awhile, for hamstringing the Cubs until the last second basically. He had to know that by playing the position he played, the Dodgers weren't going to give a decent offer (I mean, I can sort of understand the Dodger's keeping Webster off limits ... but Reed?) I wonder if the Dodgers offered Martin/Lindblom for Dempster. That would've gotten my attention a tiny bit.