Sammy Sofa

Wow. What a dumb, dumb decision. If Soto and Soriano rebound they'll be hitting #6 and #7? Let's let that one sink in.

So on your list of strawmen you've got people attacking guys like Telander to try and take the heat off of guys like McGwire, then people arguing that McGwire and now that people have to have "superior credentials" to question someone like Telander? That's absurd. I don't have to be a "superior" sports journalist or even a sports journalist to do that. Again, explain to me how you justify Telander not touching this before 2000. Was it too well hidden? Did he ignore it? Do you really think he had no clue or couldn't have "uncovered" decades' worth of PED use if he had looked into it even halfheartedly? Hasn't it become apparent by now that this wasn't some secret activity by a small group of individuals? Coaches were involved, trainers were involved, doctors were involved and everyone was going back and forth between them and reccomended who to go to and what to use and so on. This was an open secret AT BEST. You REALLY think that it would have required some kind of serious investigation or detective work to figure this out? It's not like people were being subtle, leaving PED's and evidence thereof around the clubhouses and locker rooms. A sports journalist would have to have been blind and deaf, or perhaps just willfully so, to have NO idea that anything was going on for as long as it did. But please, "defend" Telander again in this ignorance by listing his credentials. Explain how that resume excuses him having no idea this was going on or choosing to ignore it, because it seems like either he, like scores of others, chose to not press the issue or was just ridiculously incompetent at his job. Which is it? I suppose you must be the biggest Hendry defender on the board, too. I mean, how could you tolerate all of these people here critcizing him? What are their general managing credentials?

I'm sorry, how does this do anything except back up my point? You're willing to give him a pass on the issue of steroids prior to 2000 despite all of his credentials? What, was he just missing it everytime it was discussed or guys wer leaving the evidence sitting around their lockers or clubhouses? Was he just incompetent? Were PED's only being handled and used by a secret cabal of sports masterminds who kept it skillfully hidden from everyone else? I really don't see how listing the guy's credentials does anything to defend why he either completely missed the PED story for decades or willfully chose to ignore it or not pursue it. It's one of those three options. Which is it? Maybe we can give him a medal for whichever one it was since he did it so "well" for so long despite this being a gigantic open secret for decades.

Everyone would be thrilled with that. That's a fantastic line for a catcher.

I'm not sitting here declaring that McGwire should be in the Hall. My comment was in regards to stupid move on Telander's part to not submit a ballot AT ALL to make some asinine statement about steroids. Guys like Telander acting holier than thou now is nothing but hypocrisy given how they could have easily exposed the decades of PED use across major American sports for decades if they had wanted to or even tried. I'll level the same criticism at Miles, too, though at least he isn't pulling the kind of crap Telander and others are where they're effectively leading the mob. Telander's crap is meaningless, empty rhetoric. The use of PED's didn't require a private investigator or an investigative reporter. I don't buy for a second that he and his kind couldn't have exposed if they so wished with a minimum of effort. For him to act now like he had no idea and that he's been "bretrayed" is just laughable garbage that's as embarassing as any player from the last 40 years that goes out of their way to act outraged waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after the fact. They're all culpable. They all contributed to that environment existing and thriving as long as it did. To act as they do now is simply an effort on their part to distance themselves from their own cowardice if they truly think this is such a horrible thing.

Let's try to downplay McGwire actions by shooting the messenger. Problem with that is you have your facts wrong - yet again. Telander was writing about steroid use for years. Part of the reason he's won so many writing awards. I'm not downplaying anything; I'm just not going to champion someone who is being pissy like this when they did nothing to break this story when PED use was rampant for the last few decades. Telander was writing in the 1980's and 1990's...where are his big stories exposing PED use in baseball? Nowhere. He wrote on the general subject of steroids and that was it. He wrote a cover story about Tony Mandarich which was basically fellating the guy and he ended up being one of football's biggest steroids stories. He didn't star asking "tough questions" about steroids in any sport until the turn of the century when it became the story du jour because it simply couoldn't be ignored any longer. There's no need to "shoot the messenger" because this guy, like 99% of the other sports journalists of the last 20-40 years, has absolutely no leg to stand on in terms of acting all high and mighty. This would be the equivalent of national news journalists from the 60's acting stunned after the fact when it was shown that JFK was banging everything in sight: THEY ALL KNEW IT AND CHOSE NOT TO COVER IT. It's ridiculous for Telander and his ilk to take the high ground and act like they were deceived or betrayed...THESE GUYS WEREN'T SUBTLE ABOUT IT. McGwire himself would have his helpers sitting in his goddman locker when he was giving interviews. The sports media did next to nothing to expose any of this until it could not be ignored any longer. They're just as culpable as MLB itself in letting it go on, and now you get some schlub like Telander being melodramatic and writing garbage essentially acting like he HAVE to suspect Ryan Theriot of juicing because he hit some extra home runs (something that on its own betrays a profound lack of understanding for the game he's writing about) and, waaaah-waaaaaah, baseball and bad men like Mark McGwire have made us this suspicious, boooo-hoooooooo. Telander should shut the [expletive] up and explain why he and his fellow journalists were so horrible at their job for decades in regards to PED in the major American sports until about 10 years ago. Their indignation rings totally hollow.

not really, his wrist was broken in spring training of 1993 and he didn't hit for power after breaking that wrist. so he retired, it healed up better and he was able to drive the ball more after coming back. it's not like sandberg was going downhill for no reason; he hit 92 home runs in 3 years before hurting his wrist and then 14 the next 2 years. it's pretty obvious where the power went. Sure, sure. Nice and convenient.

It's hilarious how people act like they KNOW there's NO WAY that guys like Grace and Sandberg didn't use any kind of PED's. Ryno had a nice power and health resurgance his last 2 years at ages 36 and 37 after 2 years of noticeable decline and injuries and missing an entire season. Weird. It's interesting how the only consecutive stretch of double digit home run years for Grace came between ages 33 and 37. How wacky!

*Yawn* Oh, look...yet another sports "journalist" that did squat to expose all of this "cowardly lying" for the decades it was going on now trying to act all high and mighty. Even better it's the [expletive] that refused to submit his HOF ballot.

Noah is so great.

Holy [expletive], he looks a lot smaller even under the suit.

Good Lord. I mean, it's great if it's true, though now I'm kinda worried he's going to be too small. I was thinking he needed to drop about 20 pounds or so.

Exactly. Or why doesn't he at least say something now to help settle his poor stomach?

Has Aramis ever showed up to one of these things?

40 pounds in about 3 months? Is he dying?

I'd be willing to be that any performance enhancers he was taking were more along the lines of Viagra and if he was taking injections it was penicillin. I'm not going to say that about anyone at this point. We have no idea what kind of uppers and "helpers" Grace opted to use.

Where are you seeing all of these people (outside of maybe some diehard Cardinals fans) clamoring for him to be in the Hall? I always think tantrums like this ring hollow from players like Clark. He'll get all pissy and rant about the ones who have been busted or admitted to something but God forbid he say anything about any of the players from when he played who were using a variety of PED's. It's just lame and someone looking for attention. I don't look at any player from the last 40 years who goes off like this as someone doing something "good" because they're ultimately culpable and not above being suspect themselves. It's very telling that so many in the game keeps trying to keep the focus on very specific players and a very specific period in time.

What a stupid idea.

Wait, how do we know that Grace was a "clean" player?

They seem to have been pretty content to wait the past few years when they started playing better. They should have added Gasol a few years ago, but fell in love with their own roster. They were linked with Amar'e and Garnett at one point too. If a trade is going to obviously improve the team they're going to do it. Sometimes deals just fall through. Yeah, teams often overrate their own guys, but the only big deal we've heard rumored this year is for Bush and it's pretty hard to imagine they'd turn it down along the lines that have been discussed unless Toronto is asking for the moon.

Why would they hold off a trade that would make the team better?

I don't know, if Mac used for 9 years, and, say, 5-10 flyouts per season became homers because of that extra strength, it seems reasonable. I threw 100 out there to be liberal. Personally, I think 50-60 is probably more likely. Mac had a ton of power to begin with. Most of his homers were cannon shots anyway. Yeah, I agree. I was actually replying to the post before yours but you beat me to it. McGwire obviously was helped out in the power department, but to say he'd just be Dave Kingman at best without them seems like an overstatement that we see too often when the issue of steroids come up. People start turning them into this wonderdrug that can turn average or above average hitters into world beaters.

McGwire was always a tank. Picking on his size as an indicator is barking up the wrong tree. It's not like he underwent a Bonds/Sosa type transformation. http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/mcgwire87tp.jpg http://www.collectselltrade.com/images/mark_mcgwire.JPG http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/124/881/871/43juNrBX7BdkjOn.jpg McGwire wasn't tiny by any means, but there was definitely a pretty significant mass increase that seperates him from guys like, say, Frank Thomas, who were always huge.

Holy crap. Is your friend OK?

That seems to be giving the drugs a LOT of credit.