Sammy Sofa

Fontenot and Baker haven't been good. Is Baker's butt healed? The physical wounds have healed...but Theriot's cruel mocking never will.

Fontenot and Baker haven't been good. Though Baker is still a good option to have off the bench against lefties.

Plenty of sources like your cousin Billy and the bagger at Dominick's? Other than having the facts on your side, great argument bro. Uh, how about all of the sources you yourself posted? None of them predicted him getting off to a start this good (which is exactly what I said in the quote you decided to focus on, and you're a fool if you think anyone predicted he'd be as good as he is right now. He's hitting out of his mind), and 3 of them predicted pretty average at best seasons. Based on the numbers you yourself posted there's little to show that at the time Johnson was signed, back in December, that he was likely to be enough of an improvement over a Fontenot/Baker platoon to justify the money to sign him. The Cubs only "missed the boat" the same as every other team except the Diamondbacks did, and the Diamondbacks sure as [expletive] weren't expecting to get what they got. Again, a lot of times these kind of signings are luck, like when the Cubs picked Edmonds off the trash heap in 2008.

They weren't with Pie.

ZiPS Chone Marcel Fans Bill James Kelly Johnson .824 .794 .777 .769 .799 Mike Fontenot .751 .726 .752 .714 .758 Yech, those are both wretched options for 2B. Yeah, that's technically predicting he would be better, but neither was being predicted to be a good option at 2B except ZiPS. Johnson's numbers right now are well beyond anyone's expectations. ZiPS and Chone were the two most accurate projection systems last year. ZiPS had Johnson rated as the third-best offensive 2B before the season, and Chone had him at #9. You're right, Johnson would have been a wretched option for 2B and nobody could have possibly predicted he'd be much better than Fontenot. :roll: But it wasn't a matter of stacking up Johnson vs. Fontenot. It was Johnson vs. a Fontenot/Baker platoon. With Johnson coming off of a crappy year and plenty of sources predicting him to so NOT be the offensive force that of course you knew he would be, it was hardly a bad move at the time for a team to opt to go with the in-house platoon that had a decent chance of matching or surpassing those predictions instead of shelling out for Johnson (and yes, I know what he's "only" making), especially given their reluctance to spend too much money with the sale completing. But yeah, go ahead and pretend all you want. The Diamondbacks got lucky. Good for them.

Likewise, the problem with Castro is Piniella. If this team didn't have such a terrible track record with this sort of thing, I wouldn't really care. But they have the same people making decisions, the same manager who changes his mind on an hourly basis and is all too quick to open the door to a doghouse. The same GM who is all too willing to wait until a player is at his lowest value before pulling the trigger on a deal. Too true. One of my biggest reasons of not wanting to see Castro up this year before September is Lou.

The point wasn't that he escapes Jordan's legacy, it's that his legacy is held in higher regard if he falls short of Jordan in Cleveland/wherever than if he falls short of Jordan in Chicago. Yeah, but that's in Cleveland.

I don't think anyone could have predicted that Kelly Johnson would put up the numbers he's put up so far. No but everyone predicted he would have been better than Fontenot and Baker. Who is everyone? Kelly was horrible last year. ZiPS Chone Marcel Fans Bill James Kelly Johnson .824 .794 .777 .769 .799 Mike Fontenot .751 .726 .752 .714 .758 Yech, those are both wretched options for 2B. Yeah, that's technically predicting he would be better, but neither was being predicted to be a good option at 2B except ZiPS. Johnson's numbers right now are well beyond anyone's expectations.

I believe Aramis owns an option for 2011, while the Cubs option would kick in for 2012, only if he stays, of course. Yeah, the team option isn't for 2011.

How so? Both were top prospects with high celings (supposedly). Both were rushed to the majors well before they were ready, and both fizzled out and became completely worthless in the short span of a few seasons. This is following the same pattern. I don't see how it's out of line to expect the same result. Castro strikes out about half as much as either of those guys and actually earned this promotion rather than promoting Pie or Patterson when they weren't really dominating. Pie had a 973 OPS in AAA the year he was called up to the majors. Patterson was promoted without actually dominating past low A (like what they are doing with Vitters), but Pie fits the treatment. Yeah, Pie succeeded at every level of the minors. I don't know where this perception is coming from that he was Patterson Part Deux. This is my concern with Castro, that the fans are going to turn on him quickly when he doesn't dominate right away.

How so? Both were top prospects with high celings (supposedly). Both were rushed to the majors well before they were ready, and both fizzled out and became completely worthless in the short span of a few seasons. This is following the same pattern. I don't see how it's out of line to expect the same result. How did Pie "fizzle and become completely worthless?" The Cubs didn't get him consistent playing time and traded him. When he did start getting more AB's again with the Orioles and was a given a chance to adjust, as he had shown he was able to do at every other level, he started putting up good numbers. Pie was only 24 last year. In the first half (119 PA) for the Orioles in definitely looked like he was struggling: .234 .299 .355 .654 In the second half, however, he put up this line in 162 PA: .290 .346 .497 .842 with 7 doubles, 7 HR and a triple. He only had 22 PA this season before getting hurt, but he got off to a torrid start in that small sample size: .400 .455 .650 1.105 with 1 HR. It's foolish to write Pie off at this point.

I get the mindset, and I think it's unjustifiably aggressive. I think with Ramirez struggling and his contract expiring, management would like to see how Vitters handles AA with a pretty significant sample. Aramis' contract only expires if he opts out.

Lumping Pie in with Patterson like that is a pretty huge generalization.

If he goes .270/.325/.350 at age 20, i highly doubt the cubs will give him the Pie Treatment. He's being brought up knowing how raw he is at age 20, i doubt the cubs are bringing him up on a short leash. Pie got the Pie Treatment when he was only 22.

Obsession? It's a minor business transaction. I've seen a couple headlines, but have not read an article about it, I suggest you do the same. All I see in the red eye is "Ricketts complains about approval process", "Ricketts threatens to not invest in Wrigley if sign not approved". Everytime I open the redeye on the way to work theres something on it. Anytime I turn on CSN Chicago for Sportsnight or Chicago Tribune live they are discussing it. It's annoying mostly because it pisses me off that people are actually so opposed to it. Anyways we're getting off topic. It just happened to be on my mind when I made that post, so lets leave it at that. So it's actually other people's obsession over the Ricketts and the sign.

Sure it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's only hovering around .650. I'm not saying the guy is a bust, but it's not a stretch to assume he'll struggle being this young on a team this bad with a manager this incompetent. If he struggles his first year, oh well. Though if Theriot moves to 2B, it still just remains a glaring hole that needs to be improved.

There's a tremendously good chance that he doesn't in the first year. Tremendously good chance he doesn't match a .650 OPS? Castro is very young and still has things to work on, but his skillset doesn't lend itself to a learning curve that makes him worthless with the bat as he develops. I'd be very surprised if he tops out past a .700 OPS in his first year.

Why are you surprised that they would move Theriot? He still starts, and it's not like he's a SS to begin with.

I totally disagree. If he comes to the Bulls and they start winning championships, even if it's not 3 in a row or 6 total he's still going to be "basking in the glory." I'm baffled by this continued implications that Chicago fans would be anything less than going nuts over him if he doesn't live up to Jordan or surpass him. If his "worry" is being judged the GoAT, then he's going to be stacked up against Michael no matter where he goes, so it's irrelevant whether that's occurring in Chicago or elsewhere. He can't somehow escape that or bypass it by playing somewhere else. His place in history is going to be compared to Jordan wherever he is. He doesn't escape that by not coming to Chicago. He's not going to get a "lesser" reaction from Bulls fans than other fanbases just because he's not Jordan because, for one, basketball is very generational and it's been over 12 years since Jordan had anything to do with the Bulls, and two, the Bulls have been garbage for the better part of a decade after he left. It would be one thing if Jordan was still any kind of presence with the Bulls or that they had stayed competitive after he left, but neither of those things happened. That's tremendous separation for Bulls fans that have grown up over the last decade, and even for Bulls fans that remember Jordan. The Bulls have been one of the worst teams in basketball for too many years after he left and he's basically completely separated himself from the team. LeBron would have zero problem coming in here and taking over and making it his team and his city at this point.

There's a tremendously good chance that he doesn't in the first year.

This team is sunk if Aramis can't turn it around. He's too essential and they can't survive Lou's hideous lineups without him.

I don't think anyone could have predicted that Kelly Johnson would put up the numbers he's put up so far. No but everyone predicted he would have been better than Fontenot and Baker. Who is everyone? Kelly was horrible last year.

An injection using an engine? Hardcore. Silly, desperate move by the Cubs.

Exactly.

But it doesn't really. Again, for people coming to the game after he was gone it just makes him a guy selling shoes and underwear. It's just the nature of the game, even for the GoAT.