Sammy Sofa

Well then keep in mind that you're the one calling it a drastic change. I'm calling it an unlikely one. It takes extraordinary circumstance to move an in their prime established star. What if his reply to "we've got this Jackson kid doing well in CF" is "who the f is Jackson?" Why wouldn't he just pick the team who says "hey, you're kicking ass and taking names as a CF. You're a big guy so there's the chance we move you off of there late in the contract, but for now you're our CF through and through?" As far as before, I was not brushing what you said aside. I was giving context to what you said. Cabrera wasn't moved for the hell of moving him. Cabrera was moved because he refused to stay in shape and generally had crap habits as a young player that cost him the lean body he came into the league with. He has only now started cutting the crap. ARod was moved because the SS on the team who could afford to pick up the largest player contract in sports history happened to be the game's other premier SS, and that team's franchise player. Nothing like that is fitting with the circumstance of Kemp's maybe move upon joining the Cubs. Cabrera, Dunn and ARod being moved were not "extraordinary" circumstances. I'm sorry, they just weren't. The only thing remotely "extraordinary" about any of them is that ARod was moved instead of an obviously inferior SS. And regardless of all of your reasoning you're ignoring the key point; all of those players could have refused or made a stink or whatever you think Kemp will do. It's not like gaining weight suddenly meant that Cabrera had to just accept a move from 3B. Dunn didn't have to accept being moved from the OF to 1B. ARod didn't have to accept being moved from SS to 3B. Yet they all did. It's not like Kemp has something that would make him an exception in that type of situation. If he signs with the Cubs and they want him to play RF he'll play RF. Look, maybe Kemp is the type of guy who values playing CF more than anything and he would turn down the biggest deal being offered just to ensure he stays there instead of moving to RF. I sincerely doubt that he is (I sincerely doubt almost any player is). If the Cubs are offering the best deal out there and their only "catch" is that they want him to play RF instead of CF I would be very surprised if he turned it down and took less money and/or fewer years to play somewhere else. Money is what talks, not playing CF instead of RF, especially when the player can easily play either spot.

I'm really curious as to why you think sliding from CF to RF is such a drastic change (especially for someone who arguably projects better defensively from a corner OF spot as opposed to CF). I also don't know why you would think it would such a huge slight for the Cubs to approach this like, "hey, Matt, we're paying you this ginormous contract and you're hitting between Starlin Castro and Prince Fielder. We've got this Jackson kid doing well in CF while we've got a glaring hole in RF that you'd be perfect for with your offensive output and defensive ability. How about you slide over there?"

Uh, what hold?

Yes but he moved bc no one thought he was a good 2B defensively. He was a reeeeeaaaaallllyy obviously bad 2B. I thought it was also because they already had Vidro and nowhere else to put him.

Cabrera ate and drank himself off of 3B. ARod moved for a fellow future HOF. Dunn shouldn't even be in the conversation. Anyway, who would the Cubs be moving Kemp to RF for? Brett Jackson? Put yourself in Kemps shoes and ask why he'd do that for some rookie/2nd year? Wait, wait, wait...how can you just brush off any of those? You talk like they all had no choice in the matter and just had to take it but then turn around and talk like teams will have tiptoe around Kemp and kowtow to his demands or else he'll...what? He'll do it because the team who signed him is asking/telling him to do so and because he's just sliding from CF to RF, hardly some kind of astronomical leap and not nearly as unusual as you were thinking, as this thread has shown.

Who the [expletive] is Clutts?

OK, that there's the weekly breaking point; I now bizarrely want the Bears to lose.

Agh, I thought Geo had his first GS for split-second there.

Players move off the skill positions as they get older all the time. Ernie Banks & Cal Ripken immediately come to mind as guys that moved from SS to 1B and 3B, respectively. Mickey Mantle got moved all over the diamond after he turned 30. Plenty of other HOF caliber players, too. If they can move, so can Kemp. Bottom line is I don't think he'll complain if the Cubs have a better fielding CF and they are paying him $15+M per year. Oh, I'm totally with you on this. I'm just trying to clarify what I think he was asking for.

Probably because he wants to stay here. Sounds like if the Cubs succeed in signing a big name FA he'd happily come back, and probably for below what he could get elsewhere.

I think Monsters vs. Monster is talking about players who were switched in their prime as opposed to early in their careers.

Maybe they figured the diabetes got rid of the lazy parts or something.

I guess Miguel Cabrera would be the modern poster child for that. Dunn would be another example (before the whole DH debacle). Plus there's ARod going to the Yankees.

It is pretty baffling how Aramis was inserted into that rant. I'd be curious to see how this guy can explain how Aramis and Soriano are so similar in how they haven't "created a winning atmosphere." $100 says the words "lazy" and "selfish" and "doesn't/don't care" are involved.

Pretty sure he never said that. Wasn't it pretty much the exact opposite? He definitely said he preferred to lead off, but ultimately he'd hit wherever they settled on wanting him to hit.

Depends on how "far" you're moving them off-position. Personally I don't think someone like Kemp moving from CF to a corner OF spot would be a dealbreaker. Soriano isn't that good of an example since you're talking about a dicey defender bounced from being a middle infielder to being an outfielder. Moving from CF to RF isn't as drastic for someone who has been an OF his entire MLB career. Now, I'm not declaring that Kemp will do this or that he would be fine doing so, but on the scale of moving guys from their traditional position it seems relatively minor (plus I think he's actually better suited defensively for a corner OF spot anyway).

That's going to be tough to do seeing as he'd be blocked by the big Justin Upton trade of 2012/2013. Why are the Diamondbacks going to be doing such a thing? Yeah, he's going to be getting a lot more expensive, but he'd be under control for three more seasons if they trade him at that point. I doubt they want to pay him, but if he has another year like this or better teams are going to be foaming at the mouth coming after him. What type of package are the Cubs likely able to come up with (and more importantly, one they can spare) to get him under such circumstances? Yeah well....g'luck moving Kemp out of CF. As far as a package...I actually think with a good 2012 the Cubs will be in at least a decent position to make a blockbuster trade. The system has talent, it's just mostly talent that hasn't broken out. We also saw in the Garza trade that the Cubs are willing to pay a good price for talent they want. The D'Backs will lose their 4 best non-Upton position players by 2014, including their starting middle infield by next year. So there's an outside shot...A long outside shot...but yeah otherwise that's the player I want. I'd like him, too, but the Cubs are going to need some serious breaking out in the farm in the next year to pull off a trade like that in the timeframe you've set up. It's less that I don't think the Diamondbacks will move him so much as I think other teams will be more like to trump anything the Cubs can offer, and rather handily, too. I think it's safe to assume Upton is easily going to command a LOT more than Garza if he has another year like this or better and the Diamondbacks are willing to trade him when he's still under control for three entire seasons. And I'm rarely concerned about getting a player to move to a different defensive spot if they're getting a ton of money; nine times out of ten they'll do it. It's not like the Cubs would be asking Kemp to DH or move to 1B or something like that.

Castro had an ugly slash line when batting third. He also had an ugly slash line when facing a starting pitcher for the second time (but not the first or third). He was pretty bad in the third and seventh innings. And the month of July. Those just look like statistical noise to me. Maybe, maybe not. I don't think I'm presenting an unreasonable conclusion by stating that I think lineup instability can effect a player's performance, especially a flawed player like Soriano (or a younger, developing player like Castro). That might be more based on who is hitting around them in certain spots, sure, but it's not that much of a stretch. Again, my main point here is that this is just yet another end result of Quade's crappy lineup managing. The usual suspects will bitch and moan about "how dare Soriano open his mouth like this," but hell, in a roundabout way he's right.

That's going to be tough to do seeing as he'd be blocked by the big Justin Upton trade of 2012/2013. Why are the Diamondbacks going to be doing such a thing? Yeah, he's going to be getting a lot more expensive, but he'd be under control for three more seasons if they trade him at that point. I doubt they want to pay him, but if he has another year like this or better teams are going to be foaming at the mouth coming after him. What type of package are the Cubs likely able to come up with (and more importantly, one they can spare) to get him under such circumstances?

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/22/mvp-candidate-matt-kemp-likely-to-seek-extension-with-dodgers/ Yeah, good luck with that. He better hopes a sale goes through real quick if he expects to be playing for the Dodgers for anything even remotely close to what he's worth.

Despite the ridiculous season he's probably the #3 Dodgers story to the ownership situation and Clayton Kershaw. Then he might not even be the best/most exciting young OFer in the division. Justin Upton is 3 years younger, had more hype coming into the big leagues, and is putting up close to a 7 WAR season as a 23(!) year old. I can't say I'm a Kemp fan (mostly because I think he's a choppy CF who's more of a COF going to get franchise CF money to play CF), but it's definitely not fair. If he was on the Yankees or Red Sox doing this... Edit: Speaking of Upton...in doing "research" for this post I found out his BABIP of .320 is actually below his career norm (.332 or .333 I forget). The upside in this guy.... That's probably part of it... not playing in New York or Boston. Yeah, those small market LA teams always get screwed by the media I didn't say "media." I said "ESPN." And I'm talking about the Dodgers, not any other team in any other sport. It's well known that ESPN has a bias toward the Yankees and Red Sox. Reading comprehension is your friend. Try it sometime. Yeah, it's not like they broadcasting SportsCenter partially from LA now or anything.

There is zero evidence to this. How are you so sure? Check out Castro, Byrd and Soto's splits, just like I said in the post you quoted. All three had lineup slots where they saw significant time this year where they hit well below what is expected from them. I'm pretty damn confident that bouncing a player around different slots in the lineup beyond covering for someone getting a game off, an injury or favorable splits isn't going to translate to favorable numbers across the board. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that relative lineup stability can help a player.

Such is the life of a 6/7 hitter though. A team cannot afford to keep a guy like that in one spot all year long. If Soriano is a 7th hitter normally, he needs to move up to 5th or 6th when injuries/days off (especially for somebody like Soto) happen. And to have one of the middle of the order hitters out happens a lot during the season. It would be nice if he could stay in one spot all year long, but it isn't very realistic. The main way you can keep everybody in their preferred lineup order is to drop in the replacement in the same spot in the batting order as the regular, and that isn't a great tactic either. Personally I don't think he should have been hitting 7th this year. In no way am I defending him as some kind of great or consistent hitter, but given the resources available I don't know why they didn't just have him consistently hit out of the 6th spot like he did last year. Again, the main thing I take away from this is just how poorly Quade managed this team via the lineup. He was constantly juggling it and making ridiculous declarations and decisions when, going into the season, Fukudome-Castro-Aramis-Pena-Soto-Soriano-Byrd-2B made obvious sense most of the time. I agree, it's not like any hitter, Soriano included, is going to automatically be rooted to one spot in the lineup, especially if they hit 5-8, but he's got some pretty significant time split between 5-7, moreso than someone who is just being adjusted based on favorable splits or someone like Soto getting time off.

Hmm, well I didn't read it as him being upset about getting moved around all season as much as being upset about having to hit so low in the lineup. Specifically: Either way, it's pretty petty to complain about being moved around from 6th to 7th in the lineup, when there is no significant difference between the 2 spots(he actually hit significantly better in the 7th spot than any other and also got more at bats at 7th than anywhere else, for what it's worth). That's why I think it's more a language barrier issue and he's complaining about being moved around. In the past he's always been vocal about hitting wherever they want him in the order and I can't really see someone making a big deal about hitting 7th instead of 6th.

He didn't go complaining to the media. $100 says he was asked something along the lines of "so what do you think of batting so low in the lineup this year?" Soriano then responds with his limited grasp of english and essentially says "I'll hit where they want me to hit, but I don't like being bounced around the lineup as often as I have been this year." What's wrong with that? It's not like we haven't been griping about Quade's crappy lineup management all season long. I didn't say he went complaining to the media. I said it is selfish to complain to the media about it, whether they were seeking him out or not. It's baseball. Hit the ball no matter where you are! If you are Soriano you are going to take the same approach no matter what slot you are hitting in. He has had the same approach whether he has hit leadoff, third, sixth, or wherever since he has been with the team. I've had enough of the Ramirez and Soriano show. Send them somewhere else. They haven't won and titles or created a winning atmosphere in the clubhouse anyway. Good riddance! Oh my. You're precious.