K-Town

I'm not trying to make him any different. I've said a thousand times that he's human, just like Zambrano, just like alot of other players. I do appreciate the fact that he knows that he shouldn't have done it, though. I was simply following up on a topic from last week, with an article that was in the PD this morning.

You betcha'. Zambrano used to bother me some. I thought he was a little over the top. Now I pretty much realize that it's just Zambrano being Zambrano. No biggie. I'm not crazy about it, but it doesn't bother me anymore.

Lee's hop is fairly muted but I think Aramis' flips and posing get under people's skin. However, Pujols' bat flip on the Oliver Perez home run was over the top; that bat went several feet. It was over the top. Even he says so. He probably shouldn't have done it, but at least he's man enough to admit that it was probably a mistake. How often do you see ballplayers do that (admit they're wrong)? I'm not sure that he admitted he was wrong because of some feeling of guilt as much as it was to undo the damage he caused to his image. He certainly wasn't consolatory right away... He's received a lot of negative press in the wake of this incident so I think that's why he admitted it was wrong. Of course you believe that. Why wouldn't you? Other players showboat. Do they try to make amends, to protect their image? Not really. That's the problem........ most players don't care about their image.

I'm not defending him. Heck, he admits that he probably shouldn't have done it. Personally, I'm not sure why people encourage pitchers to retaliate, but get this worked up when hitters do it. If Pujols showboated, you'd all be clamoring for a pitcher to retaliate. But when a pitcher shows HIM up, he's supposed to ignore it. I don't understand the double-standard. How is his image "spoon fed"? The bat-throwing incident was reported, just like everything else he does. There's no double standard for me. Players do these things all the time (although, I do think he went beyond whatever little dance he claimed Perez pulled on him). I don't think it would have been a story if the retaliation hadn't been so pronounced. How many people even remember the so-called disrespect Perez showed to him last year? Like it or not, many people WILL remember Pujols' stunt By "spoon fed" I mean that there seems to be a conscious effort to portray him only as a good guy (like the anti-Bonds) when in reality, he's just like any other player with good and bad traits. What "conscious effort" are you talking about? People might remember him throwing the bat. I don't care if they do or not. He threw it. If people want to crucify him for it, then they can knock themselves out. If it weren't that, they'd find other dirt. It's the nature. I'm not sure why you think that the bat-throwing was anymore extreme than anything else that goes on. He threw the bat and ran the bases. Personally, I think it's being blown out of proportion. He's human.....he made a mistake, and he wishes he hadn't.

OK.

Lee's hop is fairly muted but I think Aramis' flips and posing get under people's skin. However, Pujols' bat flip on the Oliver Perez home run was over the top; that bat went several feet. It was over the top. Even he says so. He probably shouldn't have done it, but at least he's man enough to admit that it was probably a mistake. How often do you see ballplayers do that (admit they're wrong)?

I'm not defending him. Heck, he admits that he probably shouldn't have done it. Personally, I'm not sure why people encourage pitchers to retaliate, but get this worked up when hitters do it. If Pujols showboated, you'd all be clamoring for a pitcher to retaliate. But when a pitcher shows HIM up, he's supposed to ignore it. I don't understand the double-standard. How is his image "spoon fed"? The bat-throwing incident was reported, just like everything else he does.

K-Town - No need to throw in incendiary comments with the objective of riling up an entire team's fan base. It was simply a comparative thing. Like I said, they're both human.

This is the "Rivalries" board, and I didn't say anything derogatory about Zambrano. He celebrated...... with his team behind. In that regard, it was similar to what Pujols did. I'm not judging him here.

No the possibility of that is why Pujols said what it said. It wasn't some bold, classy move on his part. It was the realization he was probably going to face Perez plenty of more times this year and beyond, and he didn't feel like getting earflapped for his temporary punk moment. Yeah right. I must not have read between the lines as thoroughly as you did, but I don't recall seeing anything CLOSE to an apology from Pujols. If anything, he's leaning toward the arrogant side. Trnaslation: please don't plunk me or my teammates. Translation: please don't plunk me or my teammates. And finally, just because the bolded part is embarrassingly lame: http://yourenotagolfer.mlblogs.com/ Obviously he doesn't want himself or his teammates to get beaned. Why would he want that? What's the point? Still, I'm not sure he's willing to hide under a rock every time a guy shows him up. Perez did his thing, Pujols did his thing, and then Pujols tried to put it to bed. Seems reasonable.

How am I trolling? I've said several times that I don't judge Zambrano anymore than I judge Pujols. "Trolling" would be showing up at a Cubs' board, and ripping Cub players for no reason. You know as well as I do that this board is closely-monitored (kudos to the admins). If I were trolling, I'd be long gone.

Showboating is showboating. I'm not saying that either guy is right or wrong. They're both human. As far as being "pre-meditated", how many times have you seen a pitcher throw at a batter who hit a home run off of him, or ran the bases with too much of a strut in his step? Plenty of times. Why is it OK for a pitcher to pre-meditate such behavior, but it's not OK for a batter?

He IS a classy guy, but he's human. A guy showboated him, and he showboated back. Personally, I don't want a guy who hides under a rock. Like I said, Zambrano was showboating last night, and it wasn't even in retaliation for anything. He was showboating just for the sake of it. You are making no sense. Holding a grudge for a year is less pathetic than gettingp umped about big strikeouts that keep your team in the game? Absolutely ridiculous. Admit Pujols is an ass for doing this or just stop talking. I'm not saying that either one is "pathetic". All I'm saying is that both Zambrano and Pujols are human (although Zambrano tends to be "more human" :wink: ). One or two posters here suggested that a ball should be thrown at Pujols' head because of this incident. THAT, my friend, is pathetic. No the possibility of that is why Pujols said what it said. It wasn't some bold, classy move on his part. It was the realization he was probably going to face Perez plenty of more times this year and beyond, and he didn't feel like getting earflapped for his temporary punk moment. Yeah right. I must not have read between the lines as thoroughly as you did, but I don't recall seeing anything CLOSE to an apology from Pujols. If anything, he's leaning toward the arrogant side.

I don't recall any of you thinking that this was a pathetic topic last week when a Cubs poster brought it up. Strange. I'm just posting a follow-up (from this morning's PD) to a previous topic of discussion.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with what Zambrano did. I was just making a comparison. I don't think that either one of those moves is completely out of line.

He IS a classy guy, but he's human. A guy showboated him, and he showboated back. Personally, I don't want a guy who hides under a rock. Like I said, Zambrano was showboating last night, and it wasn't even in retaliation for anything. He was showboating just for the sake of it. You are making no sense. Holding a grudge for a year is less pathetic than gettingp umped about big strikeouts that keep your team in the game? Absolutely ridiculous. Admit Pujols is an ass for doing this or just stop talking. I'm not saying that either one is "pathetic". All I'm saying is that both Zambrano and Pujols are human (although Zambrano tends to be "more human" :wink: ). One or two posters here suggested that a ball should be thrown at Pujols' head because of this incident. THAT, my friend, is pathetic.

He's a human. He admits that he probably shouldn't have done it (and handled it much differently when given the opportunity last night), which is more than some guys do. He doesn't sound like he regrets it all. It sounds like he feels nobody should be allowed to ask or comment on his behavior, and that he had plenty of time to plan his retalliation. That completely rips apart the "heat of the moment" excuse. I agree. I don't think he regrets it. I've done alot of things that I probably shouldn't have, but I don't necessarily regret them.

He IS a classy guy, but he's human. A guy showboated him, and he showboated back. Personally, I don't want a guy who hides under a rock. Like I said, Zambrano was showboating last night, and it wasn't even in retaliation for anything. He was showboating just for the sake of it.

He's a human. He admits that he probably shouldn't have done it (and handled it much differently when given the opportunity last night), which is more than some guys do.

:roll: This is what I just read: "Pujols Pujols ok Pujols Pujols great Pujols Pujols no problem Pujols Pujols....Zambrano punk" Seriously, why would you even add that last line? Just to flame? The article was about Pujols acting like Bonds, then trying A)rectify B)explain. Then you throw a Z comment at the end? Instead of actually commenting on what YOU had just pasted! I added it, just to show that players are human, and sometimes do things that they maybe shouldn't. Someone here posted last week that Pujols should have a baseball thrown at his head for what he did. I'm just saying........ it happens, and don't be so quick to judge.

Yup....... He also agrees that he probably shouldn't have done it, but it was more of a retaliation move. Personally, I thought this part was kinda cool, even though it's probably the wrong way to handle it: "He struck me out last year and did all his dancing and I remember that," Pujols said. "That's what happened in Pittsburgh. I hit that ground ball back to him and he did his little dance again and I got real upset. I went to the video room and told my guy Chad (Blair), 'I'm going to hit the next ball and I'm going to hit it a long way. But don't look at the ball. Look at where the bat is going to land.'"

There was some discussion about Pujols tossing his bat in the air after hitting a home run last week, while his team was losing big. There's a follow-up article concerning this in the PD this morning: http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/8234A5DB5C32A5F38625715B00223AAA?OpenDocument On a side note, I noticed that Zambrano was very animated in his strikeout celebration, with his team losing last night.

He's borderline, in my opinion. For comparison sake on a Cubs' board, Edmonds has put up numbers similar to Ron Santo, and Edmonds has done it at a position that you traditionally don't get great offensive numbers from. Those who believe that Santo belongs would also have to consider Edmonds. I agree with most here, that Edmonds needs a couple of more really productive years to be considered.

Minute Maid has actually played as a pretty neutral park the last couple of years. This year so far it's the 4th best environment for runs. Sample size is too small, in my opinion.

Minute Maid has actually played as a pretty neutral park the last couple of years.