CardsFanInChiTown

We'd have Bedard too. O's fans think they are getting shafted in that proposed deal. They want something like Prior + Pie/Murton for Tejada or Prior + Pie + Hill + Cedeno for Tejada and Bedard. And that is because they overvalue Tejada. I don't care what the perception is around baseball message boards, Prior is better than Tejada. Prior may have gotten injured a few times, but Tejada is vastly overrated. Tejada in not overrated - he just doesn't fill the Cubs needs very well. The guy's VORP was ranked 12th in MLB last year.

What about performance bonuses? I bet they'll at least keep 2-3m for midseason pickups.

I agree.

I think he's way too overinflated. The guy has had worse injury concerns than Prior, is older, and has a much less impressive track record. People are talking about him like he's some hot shot 23 year old prospect without blemishes on his resume. I'm not saying he's Prior but he's a pretty nice guy to have around.

I think JH is counting on the rotation looking like this: Z Wood Maddux Williams Guzman I'd certainly rather it be that way than having Rusch in the rotation, so may be its wishful thinking on my part. Aside from Z the pitching rotation would be pathetic. Do you guys really expect Wood to be back and injury free? Maddux is likely going to regress again this year. Williams is a good #5 right now and Guzman is in the same category as Wood. TERRIBLE. So in the end we're going to lose Prior because we lost on Furcal. Jim.... settle down. Tejada is NOT worth Prior. Give them Hill, CPatt, Guz, and another. If they turn it down, it's their loss. Of course Baltimore is going to take this trade. They'd be idiots not to. I hate you, Jim. Honestly, truly hate you. You guys keep forgetting Bedard. He's a huge chip. He's not significantly more valuable than Hill, who's also being moved in this deal. I very much disagree. Bedard has shown he's been able to dominate at the MLB level, Hill has not. There are legit concerns about Hill being a AAAA player.

I think JH is counting on the rotation looking like this: Z Wood Maddux Williams Guzman I'd certainly rather it be that way than having Rusch in the rotation, so may be its wishful thinking on my part. Aside from Z the pitching rotation would be pathetic. Do you guys really expect Wood to be back and injury free? Maddux is likely going to regress again this year. Williams is a good #5 right now and Guzman is in the same category as Wood. TERRIBLE. So in the end we're going to lose Prior because we lost on Furcal. Jim.... settle down. Tejada is NOT worth Prior. Give them Hill, CPatt, Guz, and another. If they turn it down, it's their loss. Of course Baltimore is going to take this trade. They'd be idiots not to. I hate you, Jim. Honestly, truly hate you. You guys keep forgetting Bedard. He's a huge chip.

I think JH is counting on the rotation looking like this: Z Wood Maddux Williams Guzman I'd certainly rather it be that way than having Rusch in the rotation, so may be its wishful thinking on my part. I believe the Cubs would get Bedard.

I get the sense it's going to happen. I agree, Tejada wants out. It's just a matter of picking the right package.

If there's something wrong with Prior than why didn't hendry try and move him earlier in the hot stove? Couldn't he have gotten Abreu for him? It doesn't add up. Didn't want to trade him to a NL team. I could see a Central team but an NL West team? Seems a little silly. It would be a little silly trading him to the NL West if Philly would be the trade partner and I'm pretty sure they're in the East. :wink: #-o :oops:

If there's something wrong with Prior than why didn't hendry try and move him earlier in the hot stove? Couldn't he have gotten Abreu for him? It doesn't add up. Didn't want to trade him to a NL team. I could see a Central team but an NL West team? Seems a little silly.

If there's something wrong with Prior than why didn't hendry try and move him earlier in the offseason? Couldn't he have gotten Abreu for him? It doesn't add up.

Another thing, I've seen the photo's in social and I can honestly say NSBB is a fugly bunch. No more throwing stones at Willie! :wink:

Willie is my all time favorite baseball player but sadly he comes up short. :(

What catches my eye is Prior's high pitch counts. I'd like to see him traded just to get him away from Dusty. :P

See, I'd think that, but considering most Cardinals fans on this board would be pleased to see the Cubs make this move and most of the rational White Sox fans over on WSI also would like to see the Cubs make this move, I'm inclined to doubt that. Although I wouldn't do the deal, by no means is it a ripoff. A few thoughts: 1) I think most NSBB members overlook is Prior's injury history too much. The fact is he hasn't *proven* to be durable. After coming back from his freaky elbow injury he didn't look right. Anyone should agree that Prior hasn't proven to be durable. He's had a few non-freak, pitching motion-related injuries since '02 (his Achilles heel injury in 04 has to be counted as pitching motion-related). But I disagree that he didn't look right after he came back last year: The Cubs were 7-2 in the games he started before his injury; his WL record was 4-1. Then he got hurt. In his first 7 starts back he was 2-2 but the Cubs were 5-2 in those starts including big wins against the Cards & White Sox. It looked to me like he didn't miss a beat even if he didn't go deep into games, hence the no-decisions. Except for a clunker in Atl, he was very strong -- sometimes dominating -- in most of his post-injury starts until Aug & Sept. He went 4-4 in Aug & Sept with a couple of dominating starts against Col and Mil, but he generally looked relatively weak those two months, I admit. When he went down his ERA was 2.93 and when the season was over it was 3.67. Anyone have his ERA after the injury on May 27? It was 4.07 -- but take away 2 clunker starts in Atl and Philly and his ERA from the time he came from his injury to the end of the year was 3.35. If you take issue with my giving him two mulligans, fair enough -- those were two big games that he needed to step up and he didn't. My main point is that his post-injury performance wasn't systemically worse than his pre-injury performance. His pre- and post-injury ERA doesn't contradict that assertion when you take out those two games, which occurred in his 3rd and 8th of 18 post-injury starts. Fair enough, you're right.

See, I'd think that, but considering most Cardinals fans on this board would be pleased to see the Cubs make this move and most of the rational White Sox fans over on WSI also would like to see the Cubs make this move, I'm inclined to doubt that. Although I wouldn't do the deal, by no means is it a ripoff. A few thoughts: 1) I think most NSBB members overlook is Prior's injury history too much. The fact is he hasn't *proven* to be durable. After coming back from his freaky elbow injury he didn't look right. Anyone should agree that Prior hasn't proven to be durable. He's had a few non-freak, pitching motion-related injuries since '02 (his Achilles heel injury in 04 has to be counted as pitching motion-related). But I disagree that he didn't look right after he came back last year: The Cubs were 7-2 in the games he started before his injury; his WL record was 4-1. Then he got hurt. In his first 7 starts back he was 2-2 but the Cubs were 5-2 in those starts including big wins against the Cards & White Sox. It looked to me like he didn't miss a beat even if he didn't go deep into games, hence the no-decisions. Except for a clunker in Atl, he was very strong -- sometimes dominating -- in most of his post-injury starts until Aug & Sept. He went 4-4 in Aug & Sept with a couple of dominating starts against Col and Mil, but he generally looked relatively weak those two months, I admit. When he went down his ERA was 2.93 and when the season was over it was 3.67. Anyone have his ERA after the injury on May 27?

I don't think it would change anything if the Cubs got Bedard in return. Except for the fact that Prior is a lot better than Bedard, you're right, it wouldn't change a thing. :wink: ...but they'd also have miggy :wink:

I don't think it would change anything if the Cubs got Bedard in return.

See, I'd think that, but considering most Cardinals fans on this board would be pleased to see the Cubs make this move and most of the rational White Sox fans over on WSI also would like to see the Cubs make this move, I'm inclined to doubt that. Although I wouldn't do the deal, by no means is it a ripoff. A few thoughts: 1) I think most NSBB members overlook is Prior's injury history too much. The fact is he hasn't *proven* to be durable. After coming back from his freaky elbow injury he didn't look right. 2) I *think* Bedard is underrated on NSBB. Pre-All Star (pre-injury) stat line was: Inn - 60.2 ERA - 2.08 SO - 52 Walks - 14 Impressive to say the least. His injury last year was not on his throwing arm - a strained ligament in his left knee. Oh and he's cheap. 3) Rich Hill will be 26 in 06 and hasn't proved anything at the MLB level. He's an interesting prospect but not elite. Given the Cubs roster I would rather have Prior however it's not a ripoff.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-rangers-millwood&prov=ap&type=lgns

Santana - The Rocket is older than father time himself.

I'm bias but I'd take AP. He's young, has a good contract (with some money defered) and has already put up several 1.000+ OPS seasons unlike Cabrera or Wright. However, if it's a super low budget I'd go with Cabrera. If I had to take a pitcher Santana is the hands down winner.

Prior + Mazzone = :shock:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10235 See this is my problem with the analysis of this supposed deal. People put whatever little label they want on a player and all of a sudden it starts to make sense. You have to look at the entire package, the big picture, the whole enchilada. When you do that, you can't justify the Cubs trading Prior for Tejada. The offense gets better, the pitching gets worse, the current team stays stagnant and the future is at risk. I agree with your general sentiment, but I think it can be justified and I don't know that it necessarily makes the team worse next season. I'm a little surprised to hear Neyer say that, but I'm kind of glad he did. If it were up to me I wouldn't make this deal. But some people are acting like this would be an enormous blunder and makes zero sense. It would be a risky deal, but there are positives and it could turn out to be a good deal in the long run. I think the key word with Neyers comment is "proved". He's right, Prior hasn't proved he's durable. On the flip side you can't at this point say he's injury proned.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10235 See this is my problem with the analysis of this supposed deal. People put whatever little label they want on a player and all of a sudden it starts to make sense. You have to look at the entire package, the big picture, the whole enchilada. When you do that, you can't justify the Cubs trading Prior for Tejada. The offense gets better, the pitching gets worse, the current team stays stagnant and the future is at risk. I could see the purposed deal making the Cubs better in 06 but they are pretty much selling out 07 and 08. Sounds like a GM in a contract year to me.