USSoccer

Rotoworld announced early this morning that Colorado was getting Kelly Shoppach in exchange for newly acquired Larry Bigbie. Whether or not that deal has become official yet or not, I don't know. Boy, that's a bad trade for the Sox...Bigbie is nothing special, and Shoppach is one of their better bargaining chips. I heard about that somewhere, but just dismissed it since it seemed stupid.

They were about to give up more just to get Huff and Baez. You can replace Hanley with their pitching prospect, and I think you can get it done. BTW, Kent is a good enough LOOGY to look really nice to a team like Boston who have pen issues. They actually weren't getting Baez. They were getting Cameron, but that's beside the point. Point is they're giving up a TON of talent and only getting back one difference maker. That doesn't seem like a deal Theo would make to me. The would also be shedding Manny's contract for 2006-7, when he's a 10-5 guy, and thus harder to deal. That would have value to Theo, since it would allow them to pursue Burnett in the offseason as well as other players.

They were about to give up more just to get Huff and Baez. You can replace Hanley with their pitching prospect, and I think you can get it done. BTW, Kent is a good enough LOOGY to look really nice to a team like Boston who have pen issues.

I'm telling you...if I could email Hendry, I'd tell him to try and work out the 3 way deal with the Reds. Send Dunn to Boston with Mercker, and then they send us Weathers. We send Boston Hollandsworth, and Cinci Hill, Mitre, Leicester and Boston sends us Manny and Cincinatti Shoppach and Hanley Ramirez. Cubs: Manny, Weathers and $10-15m. Boston: Dunn, Hollandsworth, Mercker Reds: Shoppach, Hill, H. Ramirez, Mitre and Leicester

What Mr. Stone doesn't understand is that it's a sellers marker. Since the Reds don't *have* to move any of them, they're correct to hold out. Look at what Tampa almost got for Huff and Baez. Holding out is one thing but, this also the team that signed Eric Milton so, one has to wonder if they're holding out for the best deal or don't know what they're doing. Very true, but at least in this instance they seem to be playing it out the way I would. I'd wait til a team got nervous and desperate, and gave up the player they weren't previously offering.

What Mr. Stone doesn't understand is that it's a sellers marker. Since the Reds don't *have* to move any of them, they're correct to hold out. Look at what Tampa almost got for Huff and Baez.

Me? Come on. Mr. Bruce Miles is definitely the right answer. Hey, I give credit where credit is due. You're as reliable as a...really reliable source? I dunno.

Hoops. And Bruce Miles. But not Steve Stone :D

Stone doesn't have any inside information. Period. He speaks in rhetorical, rambling terms. He's not the baseball Einstein than some make him out to be. I'm pretty much sick of the fact no one has seen through this. Listen to him talk sometime-he doesn't actually *say* anything that is insightful. Good in-game color guy. Bad baseball mind. Bad judge of talent. He'd make an awful GM. Look at that Trade. We take on $30m extra in payroll and give up several players for 2 players that are no better than what we already have. For Stone to suggest trading a 27 year old entering his prime for a 33 year old leaving his prime than makes twice as much is idiotic. His original idea, which was Manny and Mueller for Aramis and others, is completely stupid. Basically, we'd be trading for the 2001 Cubs. Manny would play Sosa, and Mueller would be himself. How did that team do? Mueller is basically no better than Murton would be everyday in LF, and Aramis is every bit as good as Manny. All you accomplish is taking on salary while shifting your production from one position to another, but you aren't any better. Well, I'm not advocating it, but team ops would be up 130 points and Manny's a long way from done. Get him out of Boston and he may put up a 1.000+ ops again. I know some of you don't believe in change of scenery stuff, so no need to berate me. I accept being wrong. Also, I hope that Wood goes to TX to help absord the additional payroll. The Cubs can just retain Patterson. Aramis Ramirez is one of the best hitters in the major leagues. Aramis Ramirez has yet to enter his prime. Aramis Ramirez is not overpaid. Keep Aramis Ramirez. Let me also go on record as saying I'm not against a trade for a left-fielder, IF he can move to right next year. Matt Murton will be a star. All the talk of upgrading our team OPS is fairly irrelevant due to Hollandsworth and Perez. With Nomar and Murton we are a FAR better team. I like Murton, but #2 hitters like Murton are dime a dozen. Manny >>>> Murton. Of course Manny is better than Murton, but Manny needs runners to score in front of him. That's why you want to keep Murton, sine his skills are exactly what this team needs more of. Murton is a good player. That said, I don't know if Murton could handle RF if we were to get Manny and keep him into 2006.

Stone doesn't have any inside information. Period. He speaks in rhetorical, rambling terms. He's not the baseball Einstein than some make him out to be. I'm pretty much sick of the fact no one has seen through this. Listen to him talk sometime-he doesn't actually *say* anything that is insightful. Good in-game color guy. Bad baseball mind. Bad judge of talent. He'd make an awful GM. Look at that Trade. We take on $30m extra in payroll and give up several players for 2 players that are no better than what we already have. For Stone to suggest trading a 27 year old entering his prime for a 33 year old leaving his prime than makes twice as much is idiotic. His original idea, which was Manny and Mueller for Aramis and others, is completely stupid. Basically, we'd be trading for the 2001 Cubs. Manny would play Sosa, and Mueller would be himself. How did that team do? Mueller is basically no better than Murton would be everyday in LF, and Aramis is every bit as good as Manny. All you accomplish is taking on salary while shifting your production from one position to another, but you aren't any better. Well, I'm not advocating it, but team ops would be up 130 points and Manny's a long way from done. Get him out of Boston and he may put up a 1.000+ ops again. I know some of you don't believe in change of scenery stuff, so no need to berate me. I accept being wrong. Also, I hope that Wood goes to TX to help absord the additional payroll. The Cubs can just retain Patterson. -Aside from the NTC Wood has, he has no value right now. He's getting shoulder surgery in the offseason. Why on earth would Texas want him? It's not like he's cheap. --130 points in OPS doesn't make of for the millions of extra dollars and extra years you take on. Aramis is basically Manny, right now, at half the cost and none of the antics, and 6 years younger. I want Manny too, man, but if we want him, we can pony up the right players in the right deal, but you don't improve youself by dealing Aramis for him. I'm not trying to berate you (although I stand by every word I said about Stone and his phenominaly stupid trade idea). I think that if we were to get Manny, it would be easiest with a 3rd team. The Reds make the most sense, as they could provide Dunn and Mercker for Boston, and would gladly take the prospects Boston was going to send to Tampa , plus a couple from us, in exchange for Manny. Florida with Lowell and Burnett is a possible partner, although not as good of a fit.

It's ok, CT...just keep in mind that the waiver deal deadline is in August. I'll bet that we see a lot of waiver movement this year, and less July 31st action.

Stone doesn't have any inside information. Period. He speaks in rhetorical, rambling terms. He's not the baseball Einstein than some make him out to be. I'm pretty much sick of the fact no one has seen through this. Listen to him talk sometime-he doesn't actually *say* anything that is insightful. Good in-game color guy. Bad baseball mind. Bad judge of talent. He'd make an awful GM. Look at that Trade. We take on $30m extra in payroll and give up several players for 2 players that are no better than what we already have. For Stone to suggest trading a 27 year old entering his prime for a 33 year old leaving his prime than makes twice as much is idiotic. His original idea, which was Manny and Mueller for Aramis and others, is completely stupid. Basically, we'd be trading for the 2001 Cubs. Manny would play Sosa, and Mueller would be himself. How did that team do? Mueller is basically no better than Murton would be everyday in LF, and Aramis is every bit as good as Manny. All you accomplish is taking on salary while shifting your production from one position to another, but you aren't any better. Worse IMO. It's harder to find a quality 3rd baseman then it is a LF. I agree. Now that we've found an All Star 3B who's entering a prime that will just about equal Manny's if we ever got some OPB ahead of him, we should just trade him for a 33 year old OF? Bah. If we want Manny, there are better ways to get him other than that joke of an idea.

Huh?

The reason that I would prefer Adam Dunn to Manny Ramirez is the fact that Dunn cannot earn the approximately $64 million Manny has owed to him unless we sign him to a 5-7 year extension, whereas Manny is under contract only until 2008. And why not trade the whole system? Because trading every young player gets you nowhere fast. You have to have cheap, productive talent somewhere, because you cannot afford everyone. If you want to try for Manny and Pie is the hangup, deal Pie. If it's Hill, deal Hill. Manny is that good, and would all but guarantee the playoffs. But you don't gut yourself and deal them both, and throw in Harveyfor fun , because if you don't happen to win now, you're up a creek. I'm all for trading anyone in the system to win now, but I'm not for completely blowing up what would take a decade to repair.

Stone doesn't have any inside information. Period. He speaks in rhetorical, rambling terms. He's not the baseball Einstein than some make him out to be. I'm pretty much sick of the fact no one has seen through this. Listen to him talk sometime-he doesn't actually *say* anything that is insightful. Good in-game color guy. Bad baseball mind. Bad judge of talent. He'd make an awful GM. Look at that Trade. We take on $30m extra in payroll and give up several players for 2 players that are no better than what we already have. For Stone to suggest trading a 27 year old entering his prime for a 33 year old leaving his prime than makes twice as much is idiotic. His original idea, which was Manny and Mueller for Aramis and others, is completely stupid. Basically, we'd be trading for the 2001 Cubs. Manny would play Sosa, and Mueller would be himself. How did that team do? Mueller is basically no better than Murton would be everyday in LF, and Aramis is every bit as good as Manny. All you accomplish is taking on salary while shifting your production from one position to another, but you aren't any better.

Senor Dunn es muy fuerte, pero Senor Hendry no le gusta porque el es encanta con Hill. Y Senor Dunn es la repuesta de Treebeard's oraciones! Senor Ramirez is mas fuerte que Senor Dunn. Entonces, yo quiero Senor Ramirez mas que Dunn.

Si! Por favor, estoy infermo de los threads para Senor Dunn!

You think Nevin would get the hint....

I can't handle another 48 hours of rampant Dunn speculation...

Couldn't we give Tampa better value than the Mets? :?

If I'm Hendry I'm not trading a 27 year old 3B who is just hitting his prime for a 33 year old LF when OFs are so much easier to get. Plus I have no problem with Murton in LF everyday I said it in the other thread: That statement is an example of why Stone would never, ever be hired as a GM.

I think it's an excellent example of why Stone would never, ever get hired as a GM. Honestly, he never really says anything that's not rhetorical or general unless it's a game situation. When they ask about player development, potential trades, or anything that requires critical thinking, Stone just repeats himself over, and over, and says just enough to make it appear he knows some insider info. I loved him as a color guy, but as a radio expert/potential GM, I don't care for him, at all.

C'mon ARam, end it here...

I don't like the thought of leaving your best hitter until the last possible moment. Barret better not DP...

Game ending DP for Hollandsworth here?