BigbadB

You're telling me that if we had a lineup of Lee/Walker/Neifi/Ramirez/Barrett/Murton/Bradley/Abreu, we are in trouble? No, I could deal with Neifi batting 8th on this team. He's actually not a bad option to hit 8th. Can Dusty be trusted to bat him 8th is my concern. Of course, I'd rather see Cedeno play over Neifi, and I don't see Cedeno going to Phily in any deal since they seem pretty set up the middle.

If they can pay Jeter 19m to be an average SS and Mussina 17m to be an average starter, then they should at least pay Giles 21m to be a great oufielder. Offensively Jeter is an outstanding shortstop, easily among the best in the game. His extremely poor defense mitigates that somewhat, but I'd still rate him as a very, very good middle infielder. Getting to my actual point, the Yankees overpay for everyone they sign. It's a pipe dream if they think they can sign Giles, and underpay to get him. If the Yankees really wanted Giles, I would think that the bidding would start at 15m a year.

How many endorsements did Giles have in SD? Locally, in SD, he got quite a few. Akinori Otsuka does a Corky's Pest Control commercial, for cryin' out loud.

Those people are probably looking at his K rate. I think he would be a fine placeholder for Pie for the next couple of years. Believe it or not there are people who don't eat, sleep, and breath OBP as the final bastion of baseball batting glory. Wilkerson is a very respectable player but not a difference maker. He's a glorified Bellhorn who puts up 60 XBH, .350 OBP, and 150 Ks. Wouldn't we just be in heaven in Corey Patterson put up 60 XBH's, .350 OBP and 150 K's?

There is no guarantee of playing for a winner in the AL East, unless you are on Boston or NYY. Toronto is not just the other side of the country, it's in another country. What kind of endorsement deals would Giles miss out on playing in such a small tv market? This contract is really not different than what seems to be getting offered, just a few extra years tacked on. It is a big deal, but I don't see it being enough to make Giles want to go there.

Most definitely. They have one of the higher ticket prices in baseball and they were in the top 10 in attendance last year. Hoffman is basically gone, Ramon Hernandez is basically gone, Klesko and Chan Ho Park will be off the books next year and then there was the money already set aside for Giles. Other than the addition of Mike Cameron and Vinny Castilla, they have all kinds of money to throw around. I just noticed that Bobby Hill was traded from the Pirates to San Diego. He's got no shot in SD behind Loretta. And Josh Barfield will probably be in San Diego in 2007. I would have liked to have seen Hill get more of a chance with someone other than utility.

Wow, now that's what I call overpaying. Though I have no idea what Philadelphia would do with Walker.

If they can pay Jeter 19m to be an average SS and Mussina 17m to be an average starter, then they should at least pay Giles 21m to be a great oufielder.

Kind of hard to do that considering we never had Tex. This goes back to when there was still a belief that Kelton could play 3rd. Does that make me old?

Wow, I didn't realize Soriano would be getting 10m next year. Nevermind. You're right. I'd rather have Walker. And at 10m, why not just sign Giles? :wink:

Orton was horrible in Sunday's game. But, so was the play calling. It seemed to me that they were running when they should have been passing and passing when they should have been running. The whole game seemed that way. Except for that fancy 1 yard drive, there wasn't much offense to speak of. I was screaming for a pass down field early in the game and when I finally got one, I quit screaming for passes downfield. Wow, what a horrible pass that was. If Orton can't complete passes downfield, this team is not going to win playoff games. If he can't complete passes downfield, they need to find someone who can. A good team is going to expose the run/run/pass series of downs the Bears run almost exclusively. It's a good thing for the Bears that Tampa missed that easy field goal, because I'm not sure they were scoring again in that game. The defense will eventually tire of trying to save the offense. Another great game by the defense. Very few defenses can stop Alstott from scoring at the 3 yard line. Glad to see Bobby Wade NOT on the field in the 2nd half for punt returns. The running game looks great, the offensive line seems pretty solid and the kicking game was good. We just need a quarterback that can spread out the defense better to make better use of the running game. I know I'm being hard on the rookie, but come on. Throw a pass beyond the yard sticks a couple times a game, will ya?

Dohhhhh. I still remember thinking we could see an infield of Kelton at 3b, Montanez at SS, Hill at 2b and Choi at 1st. 3 out of 4 are gone now, and the 4th went backwards through the system and plays the outfield now. 8-[

Where's the love for Aubrey Huff? If Giles, Abreu and Dunn are not options, why not send some pitching Tampa's way? I know they ask for the moon, but they have a horrible glut of outfielders, and sooner or later their demands will come down. Huff has a 3b arm, so that shouldn't be a problem in RF. I really don't know much about him defensively. He's a lefty bat that would fit nicely in the heart of the order. Furcal Bradley Lee Huff Ramirez Soriano Murton Barrett Walker and pitching for Soriano. We have tons of relievers and a few decent starters. Pitching and more pitching for Huff. Both teams need pitching. We have it. Would Texas want Cedeno or is Kinsler still projected at SS? Soriano isn't one of my textbook guys, but in the right spot in the order, he can do some damage. Respectable AVG (career .280), good SLG, excellent speed, scores runs in droves, drives in runs well for a 2b. Bat him 6th and Murton and Barrett would have wonderful RBI opportunities. I could see a Mench/Delucci platoon working as well, but as someone else stated above, I doubt Texas would want to move that many guys. Huff, on the other hand, is getting too expensive for Tampa and they need pitching as bad as Texas does. Does Huff cost you more or less than Mench/Delucci would cost?

Yes. It is insulting to the person it was directed towards. But, since you have retracted the statement and since the person it was directed at has agreed with me that it was insulting, I'll discontinue this discussion. If you would like to discuss it further, please feel free to PM me.

Macias ? Come on, Brian, you're overstating the case here. Through 127 games, Macias had exactly 16 ABs hitting ahead of Ramirez in the lineup. First off, how did you know my name was Brian? Not only are you an incredible stats man, but do you have ESP as well? Okay, adding Macias in there is a bit of a stretch, but I also left out Enrique Wilson, Ryan Theriot and Jody Gerut. Those are small sample sizes as well, but they do start adding up. My point was that we got a team OBP of .299 from the lead off spot and a .314 from the #2 spot all season long. For Aramis to have as many RBI's as he did in just 123 games with such poor performance from the 2 lead off spots makes me believe he could produce even better with decent to excellent OBP from those spots.

Thanks for clarifying. From where I come from, New England is near London, England. :D

Personally, I think it was absolutely unnecessary. Personal insults are never harmless. More than anything, they reduce the value of your own argument. Personal insults drive down the value of this community. I can't seem to read through a single thread these days without finding a personal insult somewhere. Considering the ever increasing list of moderators being added to this site, I can't imagine that my findings are that far off. It's called policing yourselves, folks. Why must it always take a moderator to remind someone when they are acting out of line? By the way, other than the "maybe your making stuff up" comment, I thought the rest of your argument was quite good. You used facts to show why you believe Nolasco is more overpowering than Piggy.

I'd also prefer Bradley as the back up plan to getting Giles in RF. To me, that makes Bradley a necessity rather than a "back up plan". If the Cubs ended up with Pierre, Giles AND Bradley, then they have some really nice depth in the outfield. Bradley can platoon with Pierre and/or Murton. If one of Giles or Pierre doesn't come here, then Bradley can play either position.

Are you saying that Greenburg can't hit or you don't want to offend me? :D I think the kid can be a 275/350 hitter that can play 2 OF postions and pinch run. Granted he has no pop but if he is used correctly I think he could be a 4/5 OF guy out there. He'd have to prove he could hit at the major league level before getting bumped from 5th OFer to 4th OFer.

I've said all along that Giles will not be back in San Diego. San Diego burned that bridge by lowballing Hoffman, lowballing Giles and showing no interest at all in retaining Ramon Hernandez. They had the money this offseason to bring all three back. The hometown discount ticket is not only burned, but burned beyond repair. San Diego is more interested in putting a nice shopping mall next to Petco than putting a team on the field. Hoffman didn't just roll his eyes when he was lowballed by San Diego. He cleaned out his locker. Something he has never done with San Diego before.

Whoops. I've been away for the last week. Mota was a truly hot commodity while he was in LA last year. Now, he's a throw in. I rest my case.

No offense, but I wouldn't rate Greenberg any higher than a 5th outfielder at this point.

When you look at all the relievers who ever played the game, there are very few that stand out as being good year after year after year. A few years ago, Mike Stanton, Tim Hammond, Paul Quantrill, Steve Kline, Ray King, David Weathers, Scott Sullivan were the hot names being tossed around as the can't miss relievers to give 3 year deals to. How many of them would you want now? Steve Kline might have been the hottest middle reliever available last year. What did he do this past year? His ERA was 2.50 WORSE than his previous year. He had a 4.28 ERA last year. Name just one guy who is a true "middle reliever" that has been good every season. It's not that the Eyre and Howry signings were not good. It's the money and the years that is ever so ridiculous. The Ryan deal and the Farnsworth deal do NOT make the Eyre and Howry signings look better. Let's break down Paul Quantrill. I liken him to Howry. He was quite successful with Toronto, but was going to start to be too expensive to retain, so Toronto looked at a way to trade him for something in return instead of leaving via free agency with basically nothing more than a draft pick. They traded him to LA along with Cesar Izturis for Luke Prokopec and another minor leaguer and neither was ever seen or heard from again. Quantrill was lights out for 2 years in Los Angeles. Along came the big money Yankees after Quantrill's best major league season ever (in his free agent year) for a 3 year deal worth nearly 10m. What did Quantrill do for the Yankees? His first year with the Yankees, his ERA went from 1.75 to 4.72. The next year, his ERA was 5.35 with 3 different teams, and New York picking up most (if not all) of the tab. He probably won't be back on a team in 2006, but he'd only be 37 next year. My point in all of this is why lock down a guy who you should have a pretty good idea will be inconsistent for 2/3 of his contract. Why waste a roster spot with a guy who may not be any more consistent than a guy you have down on the farm making much less money. Howry is currently twice the pitcher that Novoa is. However, Novoa has just as good a chance of being the better pitcher of the two in 2006. The same could be said about Wuertz. When I look at these relievers, there is nothing that sticks out as consistent with these guys. One year they are lights out, the next year they are horrible. Look at what Felix Heredia did in his years following the disaster known as his tenure with the Cubs. He was lights out for the Yankees, and then he sucked again. What the Cubs should have done was wait for teams that needed to shed payroll and deal prospects to fill relief holes. The Florida Marlins are now talking about trading Mota. Houston is talking about trading Lidge. Otsuka has been mentioned in trade rumors in San Diego. We have all these guys being unprotected in the minors and instead of using a couple of them to get a Howry or Eyre-like replacement at the major league level, we are throwing money at them like there is a never ending budget. If the Cubs end up with Preston Wilson or Juan Encarnacion or Jeromy Burnitz or the like in RF in 2006, I'm going to be extremely LOUD each time I see Scott Eyre or Bob Howry give up a lead or each time Burnitz strikes out with runners on base, knowing all along we could have had a GOOD RFer rather than another mediocre bullpen arm. If Hendry shocks me and gets Giles or the like, I'll shut up and applaud his offseason. But, at this moment I'll just wait and see what happens.

FYI, Lofton is a FA I honestly thought he had another year left. Well, I change my question to: do you think Lofton will find a starting role somewhere next year? He deserves it. Lofton just finished up his 2 year/6m deal he originally signed with the Yankees. He definitely deserves a platoon at the very least. He's the guy I thought would be a good fit to platoon for the Cubs next year as he keeps the seat warm for Pie. I still think it would be the right way to go if they sign Furcal. Save money and prospects by signing Lofton rather than trading for Pierre. The savings could provide a better return on a RFer. I scratch my head with all these Abreu rumors. Why is Phily even considering trading Abreu? With Thome gone and Wagner nearly signed with the Mets, why dump a premier talent like Abreu? And why on Earth do you also pay part of his salary to move him? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see him wear a Cub uniform. I just don't get the thought process of Philadelphia entertaining any trade proposals for him. I will predict that if Giles finds a more friendly hitter's park to play half his games next year, he'll have a better year than Abreu in 2006. It's just a shame that it likely won't be in Chicago.