BigbadB

like a potatoe Good. Now, who would have liked for Hendry to give Giles a 3/45m contract if that's how much it would have taken to get him away from San Diego? I thought 3/30 was the price all along. I would have been willing to go 3/40 (maybe 45), with a team option for the 4th year coupled with a buyout of up to $5. And if he played X number of games in 2007/2008, it would become automatic (but X would be high). 3/30 was the price St. Louis and some other team were offering. Toronto offered more, but if Giles wasn't interested in Chicago, surely he couldn't have been interested in Toronto, so why were they making offers? 3/45m to me gets Giles attention. 15m is a lot better than 10m. To me, 10m is a bargain for his production. Is Abreu 5m better than Giles? Shawn Green gets more than that, I believe. 3/45m gets Giles attention. No one offered that. He went back home. My opinion, of course.

I do remember that, but only now that you rementioned it. I took offense to the "declining production" then, and I take offense now. The only thing he has declined in is HR's, and the park he plays in, IMO, has a lot to do with that decline. Age, I can understand. But, Hendry got good production out of an aging Moises Alou in 2004, so I can't agree with it. Giles is a better player than Alou.

like a potatoe Good. Now, who would have liked for Hendry to give Giles a 3/45m contract if that's how much it would have taken to get him away from San Diego?

How about we just drop this whole "how do you know" stuff, otherwise I'm locking this thread.

That's how much Bobby Abreu is getting. Abreu is probably not coming to the Cubs. Abreu would probably be the better choice of the two because of age, but if one isn't available, you have to consider overpaying if you want the guy who can help you the most. Instead of overpaying for a "GOOD" player like Giles, instead we overpay for average players like Neifi, Rusch and Eyre. To me, that doesn't make sense. None of those other guys are difference makers. Giles is a difference maker. The biggest hole on this team is RF. What we needed in RF was a lefty, power bat that gets on base a ton. Giles can play RF. He's a lefty, he can hit for power and he gets on base a ton. Giles/Cedeno would have cost a hair over 15m a year if you made that deal. Furcal/Preston Wilson would have likely cost more "If Hendry did get his man". Assuming the Cubs still had budget room for someone like Milton Bradley in CF, which would you honestly rather have? Furcal at 10m for 5 years and Preston Wilson at 6m a year for 2 years or Giles at 15m for 3 years and Cedeno at league minimum of 3 years? Paying Giles through age 37 wouldn't be that horrible, IMO. We did it with Moises, and a lot of people wanted Moises back this year. Moises got a 2 year deal with San Fran. It's a risk, but one that had to be taken if available. Worst case scenario is that he doesn't work out and you have to pay some of his salary to DH in the AL for the last year. Phily did it with Thome, the Cubs could have done it with Giles.

Would it have been in the best of interest for Giles and his agent to tell a team interested in his services to "buzz off"? Especially, if their main purpose for testing the market was to drive up Giles price.

How exactly do you know this? Is it that hard for you to accept that maybe, just maybe, Giles didn't want to play for Chicago? It's very hard for me to accept that Hendry apparantly didn't even try to talk him into the move, like other GMs have done with players who used to be against playing for that team. Like I asked before, How exactly do you know this? Well, we didn't get Giles, so that alone says he didn't do enough. But no, I don't know this as fact. None of this crap we talk about is known as fact. But any reasonable person who has read up on the situation would have to come to the conclusion that Hendry didn't really try hard to get Giles. If you disagree with that statement, or the statement that he did try really hard to get Furcal, than go right ahead and say it. But don't ask me to prove every statement, or else make sure you do that to every other poster who makes an educated assumption based on several reports by many baseball media outlets. I just don't think you know what you're talking about. That's all. You claimed Hendry didn't put enough eggs in Giles's basket. I was just wondering how you knew this. Nick, Goony doesn't know what he's talking about anymore than you know what you are talking about, and I don't have any facts to back up anything I'm talking about. No one here is Jim Hendry. Goony is free to make his own assumptions of whether Hendry tried aggressively to get Giles or not. He's not calling you out for believing that Hendry did everything in his power to get Giles. Therefore, there is no reason for you to call him out for believing that Hendry did not do all he could. Disagree or move on. If you prefer to trust that Hendry at least asked about Giles availability, good for you. Some of us don't buy into it, just like a lot of other people won't believe another Chicago Cub injury report. The only thing that will change my mind that Hendry did everything he could to get Giles, would be if he came out publicly and said he offered Giles a 3 year deal that was better than any other offer and Giles turned him down. Personally, I don't know why Hendry didn't offer Giles 3/45m to come to Chicago. No, I can't prove that he didn't make that offer. But, if he did, I'm sure someone would have heard about it. In fact, I'm not so sure Giles would be putting all his equipment back in the same locker he had last year if Hendry did make that offer. To me, and in my opinion only, Hendry wanted Furcal, not Giles. He placed more importance on a lead off hitter, rather than the most productive outfielder on the market. I sure hope someone flat out asks him why he didn't seem interested in Giles at convention this year. Maybe we will get some truth.

Only problem with Gathright, is there wouldn't be any inspiration to improve his walk rate once he was playing under Dusty "be aggressive at the plate" Baker.

Good point. But, it doesn't appear to be a bad problem to have. They could make a few deals that send 2 or 3 prospects for a super prospect.

Isnt Villone still on the Marlins?Or are you just assuming that he will also be dealt? Yeah, I'm assuming that Villone and Conine won't be back, either.

Since they don't have anyone left on their 25 man roster, I'm sure a lot of them will make the team. Pierre Conine Lowell Gonzalez Castillo Delgado LoDuca Beckett Burnett Mota Villone That's 11 replacements they can make just right there. Did I forget anyone? (also assuming Pierre will be gone)

I'd rather keep Gathright than trade him for Pierre. I would have to wonder if Tampa would rather stick to trading 1 player at a time, in hopes of getting more in return? Perhaps Atlanta would overpay for Lugo with Betemit and Estrada. Perhaps the Cubs would overpay for Huff by trading Williams and Hill. Florida got great return on each of their individual deals. I wonder if Tampa would take that same avenue?

More to the point, why on Earth would you deflate Walker's value with comments such as this? Does anyone have anyway to put a positive spin on Hendry's approach to moving Walker? Because, I just don't get it.

:lol: :lol: Good luck Mr. Miles. Good luck getting a doughnut? With Cashman around, it shouldn't be too hard. He probably ridiculously overpaid for the doughnuts just to have them all to himself, and will now pay you to take the doughnut and give you free coffee to go with it. :wink:

Atlanta can make a pretty attractive package for Lugo.

As far as I know, Bradley is not a free agent...... Yet!

CubsfaninCA, You have PM's in your inbox. Read them!

No, but that may be your 1400th post needlessly bashing other posters while thinking that emoticon means something though. Not signing Furcal doesn't = stopgaps everywhere, that's a strawman argument itself for crying out loud. Trade for Bradley, get an Abreu, Wilkerson, Dunn, Gomes, etc., and maybe let Cedeno play SS. Where's the stopgap? Bashing?? Now that's a strawman. Nice disregard for your buddy's hyperbole. Consistent. I just now read the post you were referring too. But this crap is what I'm talking about. The point is made when you question whether "Hendry put all his eggs into Furcal's basket". It's a valid point, I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. But you continually try to act victimized like one side of the argument is always at fault for not being perfect, and it really needs to stop. Make the point you want to make, stop there, don't attack the poster. "Victimized" = strawman I said the argument was a strawman argument. How the f did I "attack" the poster?? Don't spin off your chair friend w/ such accusations. It's considered an attack because someone is obviously offended. A perfectly fine baseball discussion once again ruined with back and forth personal crap. I just warned you 3 days ago that this has got to stop! It will stop, one way or another!

Did I hear Royce Clayton was still available? Wouldn't Neifi and Royce make for about the worst middle infield in the history of MLB? Can I rule out that possibility completely? No!

Can we still trade Brandon Sing? Oh yeah, I guess not. How about Scott Moore instead. They could probably use a 3b prospect.

Nor would he go to Philly, I suppose. I read in the Sun-Times that Mench isn't a target and the Cubs have decided to get a LH bat in the OF, and I can't think of anyone on the Rangers squad who fits the bill. Perhaps Walker to the Mets for Floyd? I think that would be worth exploring, I think you'd have to have a quality 4th OF'er given Floyd's injury history. I'm not sure how eager they'd be willing to give floyd up now that they unloaded Cameron, depending on how they feel about Nady. It could be clearing the way for Manny. Then Diaz could get his shot in a Manny/Beltran/Diaz outfield. A lineup of Reyes/Walker/Beltran/Manny/Delgado/Wright/Diaz/Molina or LoDuca would be nothing to scoff at, and less expensive sans Floyd. Who do you believe the Mets would have to send to Boston to make the Manny deal work? If they still have Floyd to trade to Chi. for Walker, the only people I see missing from your Mets line up is X Nady and Kaz Matsui. I don't think Ramon Hernandez can be ruled out as their catcher instead of Molina or LoDuca.

Getting back to Huff, Tampa might have our answers at all 3 positions of need. SS -Lugo: Puts up numbers nearly identical to Furcal RF- Huff: Coming off a down year, but a very good middle of the order, left handed bat in all of his previous seasons CF- Gathright: He's on the market, which leads one to believe Baldelli will be ready on opening day. I haven't heard any comparisons on Gathright, but I liken him to Kenny Lofton. Tampa can fill every one of those holes internally and cheaply. What they would want in return would likely be pitching. After Kazmir, they have very little. They aren't going to get anyone via free agency, unless no other team wants them. It would cost a lot for those three guys. And I might try to get Bradley before making this deal. If Bradley is going nowhere, what might it take to land these 3 guys? Jerome Williams, Rich Hill, Sean Marshall and Brandon Sing? Huff and Lugo aren't cheap. Between those two, we'd be taking on 10m. Would that lower the amount that Tampa would want in return if we relieved them of that salary?

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I'd be absolutely shocked if Nomar came back to the Cubs after the way they kicked him to the curb this offseason. A huge "if" ... But, if Hendry said..."Nomar, if we sign Furcal your gone. If we don't your back" Maybe Nomar will be back in Cubbie blue after all ? The only way the Cubs are getting Nomar back, IMO, is if they outbid every other team currently interested in his services, years and dollars. Time is running out to do that. Nomar hasn't been sitting around waiting to see what pans out with Furcal (though it does help his situation), no teams were going to sign him until after the Cubs decline arbitration. Since they can still offer arbitration, that might be the one thing going for the Cubs. Problem is, Nomar is a "B" free agent and not an "A". Re-signing Nomar was my first offseason priority. Get him signed to a 1 year deal, low base with incentives. If you got Furcal, stick Nomar in left or right. Of course, I didn't want Furcal anyway. I wanted Giles. Re-sign Nomar Pick up Walker's option Bid adieu to Neifi and Macias Sign Giles (3/15) Sign Lofton (1/1m) Patch the bullpen by trading off Patterson, the relief corps and prospects. You have about 25m wrapped up in the moves listed above. Maybe instead of signing Lofton, trade Walker for Bradley and stick Cedeno at 2nd. Done.

Amazingly, I'm not the slightest bit phased by this news.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I'd be absolutely shocked if Nomar came back to the Cubs after the way they kicked him to the curb this offseason.