nilodnayr

I am jealous of the Marlins, they have had a ridiculously impressive offseason. If they can get out of florida and make some money they will have a juggernaut 2008-2111.

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy. Ignorant... BA ranked them 17th and 18th best prospects respectively in the southern league, which was loaded this year. Pinto and Nolasco just happened to be #2 and #3 in the league in ERA (2.71 and 2.89), both averaging a K/IP, and 1.22 WHIPs. And although they are both repeating after failed attempts in AAA, they are both age appropriate. Also on that BA ranking was Murton (12), Jenks (13), Broxton (14), and Hill (15). Marginal, my left foot. First off, why don't you stick to criticizing arguments instead of name-calling like "ignorant"; no one (namely, me) said anything to you directly. I think you're a smart-ass and someone that is impressed with other people's rankings, how about that? Happy now? Now for the argument at hand. I've seen Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto pitch in person. Have you? Prospect rankings are as much a popularity contest as anything else. If I had a quarter for every kid on "BA's Top X" list I'd be a millionaire by now. These guys are not difference makers, OK? You want to obsess over every last guy in the Cubs system, terrific, have fun, but I would like to point you to more objective outcomes. Namely, how many of such players have amounted to ANYTHING at the major league level?? Here's a fun parlor game for you: go back and look at these Cubs Top X lists the last five years. See how many of those kids are playing in the major leagues right now and get back to me. Hmmm BA's opinion or DKWG's opinion??? Which to chose, which to chose... I meant ignorant in terms of ignoring overwhelming evidence AGAINST your claims that they were marginal prospects simply for repeating AA. Stating facts as their dominance of the level, relative age, and respected analysis publications opinions are fine pieces of evidence disproving your statement. I am in no way advocating not trading any prospects, however given the return, these two VALUABLE pieces of the organization could have been utilized much better to improve the club. When you talk about Juan Pierre, "marginal" comes to mind, not "difference maker".

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy. Ignorant... BA ranked them 17th and 18th best prospects respectively in the southern league, which was loaded this year. Pinto and Nolasco just happened to be #2 and #3 in the league in ERA (2.71 and 2.89), both averaging a K/IP, and 1.22 WHIPs. And although they are both repeating after failed attempts in AAA, they are both age appropriate. Also on that BA ranking was Murton (12), Jenks (13), Broxton (14), and Hill (15). Marginal, my left foot. Well, if Don Kessinger was good then I guess in that bizarro world then Pinto and Nolasco could be marginal prospects. ;) ZING!!!!!

How does Petit not crack the rotation?!?!?!? Sounds made up to me :lol:

Throw in Guz/Marshall and it should be a done deal.

Walker should be kept. But its always the fear if Cedeno have a 0-10 streak Baker will give Nefi the SS for the full year. It appears as though there is unsurmountable evidence that Hendry wants to deal Walker. If so, he really should have picked up Castillo, we could have easily matched what the twins put together. Then we wouldnt have had to overpay for a marginal player like Pierre.

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy. I'd say that Pinto's struggles at AAA were more concerning than Nolasco's struggles, especially considering Nolasco was described as "not ready" by most reports when he was initially called up to AAA. Sometimes guys need more patience than others. I'm going to wait and see on this trade in terms of the pitching prospect from the Marlins. If it's some one who could crack the Cubs' Top 10 prospects list or some one with a nice ceiling, that could make this deal more pallatable. Or, he could potentially be used in a second trade for a RF. Completely agree, Pinto should have been ready for AAA and his wildness is a big concern, but hes still nowhere near "marginal".

Aw, c'mon Mush--Fez is a total zero, and Nolasco and Pinto only look good because they pitched well while REPEATING AA. That's a big leap to get from AA success to useful major leaguer, as their failure in AAA in 2004 attests. None of these guys are anything other than marginal prospects. So, good trade! When the situation is dire, you need to overpay, OK, but what's done is done. We finally have a leadoff man. You are right--if Pierre performs in 2006 as he did in either 2001, 2003, or 2004, Cub fans are going to be very VERY happy. Ignorant... BA ranked them 17th and 18th best prospects respectively in the southern league, which was loaded this year. Pinto and Nolasco just happened to be #2 and #3 in the league in ERA (2.71 and 2.89), both averaging a K/IP, and 1.22 WHIPs. And although they are both repeating after failed attempts in AAA, they are both age appropriate. Also on that BA ranking was Murton (12), Jenks (13), Broxton (14), and Hill (15). Marginal, my left foot.

Whats the marlin's plans? Why in God's name did they rush so many pitchers to the majors last year? Are they trying to be the anti-drays? Was there a SARS outbreak in Albequerque? I mean 3 21 year old pitchers (Bazardo, olsen, and Johnson) 2 22 year olds (Olsen and Resop) and a 23 year old (Kensing's second option, Im not counting Dtrain or Messenger who at least elevated steadily and started 2005 as an isotope). Did they want to win some contest for burning the most amount of valuable options?

Also per cubs.com http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2250647 http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051206&content_id=1277743&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-bkc-ncaa-cbs,1,6933427.story?coll=sns-ap-sports-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2250647 Headline says the agreement has been reached...drats EDIT: Are those just the old stories, with new headlines?

I don't know....did it work for the Diamonback with Richie Sexson, or the White Sox with Wells and Colon (in separate deals)? My guess is...it wouldn't be worth 3 prospects, but if the rumor is the Cubs are only sending Nolasco and Pinto and getting a prospect with Pierre, then yeah, it will be worth it. Knowing Hendry's ability to work a trade...it wouldn't surprise me if he walks away with either Kensing, Vargas, or Olsen with Pierre. If Kensing, Olsen, Resop, or Bazardo are included then its a good deal, othwise its way overpaying. And in my opinion with Pierre, the only way we can contend is with an addition to the starting rotation (or just replacing Rusch with Williams), everyone staying healthy, and a stud in RF. In other words, I'm hoping the Marlins stall to get something more and we chose Bradley instead. Its just so interesting that the story about Dusty meeting with him over lunch last week comes out today. Please let it be a sign!

I'm not sure Vargas would still qualify as a a "minor leaguer" considering he started 13 games in the majors.

I've found quite a few interesting pitchers in their minors, Chris Resop would be another. Anyone have a list of their top 20?

I will take Scott Olsen as the unnamed pitching prospect.

Just in case you missed, he wasn't implying they aren't studs, just thought (as did I) that it was funny that a professional web site would refer to players as studs. yes, i now see...after making me look up their stats...grrr

He did it before in 04. Hes has already made 121M bucks, whats to say he wont suck it up, make a couple more mil to try and win a ring for his hometown team?

From the Marlins site. I thought that was pretty funny. :D Whats so funny? BA ranked them 17th and 18th best prospects respectively in the southern league, which was loaded this year. Pinto and Nolasco just happened to be #2 and #3 in the league in ERA (2.71 and 2.89), both averaging a K/IP, and 1.22 WHIPs. And although they are both repeating after failed attempts in AAA, they are both age appropriate. So please explain to me whats funny.

He can still resign with them even if they dont offer him arbi, he would just have to wait until May to play, given his age, it might even be beneficial. If he really wanted to win, he should just sign for a couple mil, so the astros can trade for abreu. This will be their last hurrah, but with that rotation and a lineup of taveras, biggio, berkman, abreu, ensberg, bagwell, lane, catcher, they should be one of the NL favorites.

take career numbers into consideration. Such as even neglecting to take pierres 2005 into consideration he is an inferior option to others. Heck, lets even ignore his non-coors ops in 2002. Lets also look and Bradleys numbers on the road. 2002: 260/321/443 2003: 346/443/548 2004: 282/376/447 2005: 309/367/494 Pierre can't even come close to sniffing those OBP, let alone those power numbers. Actually he has accomplished those OBP from 2004/05 before. Yea Bradley kills him on power. Hard to argue with the 2003 except by saying he has not seen anything close to that OBP production any other time in his career. I do have to say that before I was higher on Bradley, but after seeing how much he has not playd it drops his stock quite a bit. I like both players. Depending on who we got may change the route we go with other spots, but either one can fit well here. I believe that pro player benefits pierre's slap hitting style, look at his home/road OBP splits 2003: 377/346 2004: 388/361 2005: 342/311 So even ignoring the supreme power advantage Bradley has, looking at road splits in 2003 Bradley had a 097 OBP advantage, in 2004 he had a 015 OBP advantage, in 2005 he had a 056 OBP advantage. I'm not as concerned with the injuries, Bradley plays hard and jacked up his knee, but all reports are that his surgery went well and he will be ready before spring training.

Way better than what to expect from Hairston? The same Hairston that had an OBP of 353 in 2003, 378 in 2004, and 361 in the first half of 2005? MPrior was taking into account the automatic drop in skills that comes every time a player signs with the Cubs. Ohh, it must have taken half a year to go into effect for JHJR.

:lol: :lol: Lima: "C'mon Angel, where's your money?" This is where I have to draw the line. Don't get me wrong, Mrs. Benson is attractive, but my God she's not even as hot as my wife. If I'm going to cheat, it's got to be a move up. Have you seen Mrs. Lima? Now, THAT'S HOT!! =P~ proove it. Oh and I don't think this is a great deal for the Royals. Its not like hes cheap. He won't turn them around. Although I do have to say I don't know whats going on over there and what they're plan is. Maybe it makes perfect sense. Either way they get Anna. Can we trade some of our spare rule 5 arms for her? She'd be a great clubhouse presence. we will just leave them unprotected and the royals can pick them up...seriously, though if anyting this will make the royals a spectacle in KC, maybe more people will go to the games?

take career numbers into consideration. Such as even neglecting to take pierres 2005 into consideration he is an inferior option to others. Heck, lets even ignore his non-coors ops in 2002. Lets also look and Bradleys numbers on the road. 2002: 260/321/443 2003: 346/443/548 2004: 282/376/447 2005: 309/367/494 Pierre can't even come close to sniffing those OBP, let alone those power numbers.

Corey has sucked big time in his 360 career ABs in the 2 hole (like I mean low 600 OPS sucking). Management "letting him do his thing" means swinging for the fences at pitches from his toes to his eyes. So in summation, no, I do not want him getting the second largest number of ABs on the team, leaving the bases empty infront of Lee/ARAM (and not by knocking in runs, by striking out). I mean by doing his thing, let him play like he did in 03. Let him play like he did in Aug of 04, when he was getting settled in. A lot of his problems have been the way this orginization has mishandled him. I get just as frustrated as the next guy when he swings at pitches in his eyes. The reason why is because I know he can do better. I would be willing to bet that he's working right now to prove he is the player everyone says he is. I also think if the rumor I've heard about him working out with Barrett is true, he will turn it around. No more of this molding him to be something else let him become the player he is. I too think he was completely mishandled in the minors, but am not as optimistic that he can just turn it around. The cubs have tried to have him use his skills for quite a while, so my response would be that I have no reason to believe he will turn it around at this point in his career (especially for the money he will be making). He has shown flashes of brilliance, but he is just way too inconsistant. Even his "breakout" 2003 (1/2) season, he only had one good month. To bank on a guy who has had 4 good months (april 2002, may 2003, june and august 2004) in over three and a half years in the big leagues to bat second in a playoff hopeful lineup is a leap of faith to say the least.

:lol: :lol: Lima: "C'mon Angel, where's your money?" This is where I have to draw the line. Don't get me wrong, Mrs. Benson is attractive, but my God she's not even as hot as my wife. If I'm going to cheat, it's got to be a move up. Have you seen Mrs. Lima? Now, THAT'S HOT!! =P~ My original post was in reaction to Anna Benson's claim (I believe on Howard Stern) that if Kris cheated on her, she would "have relations" with every player on his team. I believe she went on to even included the trainers, bat boys, etc...you'll have to ask Vance though, I think he has it memorized. :lol: