Illini Iceman

Tropicana Field is not an hour away from downtown St. Petersburg and it is not dark. The biggest problem is that the team stinks so there aren't many fans in the seats. This leads to games there lacking much excitement.

Wonder what Hendry has up his sleeve this week. He has to add Howry and now Mabry to the 40-man. Who's getting kicked off? Is there a trade coming this week? I'm interested in seeing how this week plays out. I think he actually has 3 spots to clear since by most counts the 40 man roster is at 41 with Scott Moore. I am assuming that it is because Wood is on the 60 day DL but I would have to think they have to move him back to the regular 40 man soon.

He can have him. The Blue Jays are going to choke on those contracts and they still won't be good enough for any better than 3rd place in their own division.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/28/Rays/Rays_lay_groundwork_f.shtml Vance, Acccording to this article, the Cubs indeed have expressed interest. "The most advanced talks apparently concern centerfielder Joey Gathright, who it is believed has drawn interest from 10 teams, including the Dodgers, Marlins, White Sox, Cubs, Angels and Giants;" The next good scoop that Damian Cristodero has will be his first. The insight on this board is way better than any article he has written. He used to be the hockey beat writer but they moved him to baseball during the strike.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2239213 Anonymous sources. Bah. What do they know? Usually nothing. I really doubt that the offer Hendry made was for more than $10,000,000 a year. Considering the contracts we've seen so far I bet he gets at least 5\60 but we shall see... I can't see who he would get that offer from. There is no way the Braves are going that high and the Mets seem to be spending their money other places. I think Hendry will put in an offer at about 4/$38M and see where that gets him.

Don't see how the Eyre singing's redundant. Williams may be on the move. Perhaps the Cubs can get Wilkerson. The Eyre signing affects Ohman more than it does Rusch. I'd rather keep Ohman but if he is part of a deal for an OF than so be it. I'd imagine Ohman would be pretty attractive to a lot of teams due to his experience, price and Lefthandedness. I see the pen shaping up this way: Dempster Howry Eyre Williamson Wuertz Williams Rusch This assumes that Baker will yet again go with a 12 man pitching staff and that Hendry is serious about having 7 starters and going out and getting another SP arm. This makes Novoa and Ohman expendable in trades. No Ohman?? If Ohman gets left out so Dusty can have 2 guys he pitches for 3 innings once every 2 weeks, I'm gonna be....not so happy. I don't think Ohman is going anywhere. It seems to me that Hendry probably would like to have Ohman and Eyre as his two lefties in the pen and Rusch in the rotation. Dempster Howry Wuertz/Novoa (one is traded) Williamson Eyre Ohman Williams He seems to want depth in starting pitching but if the right deal comes along I think he would move Williams and then they could slot Mitre or Wellemeyer into that bullpen spot. I would be very surprised if they don't carry 12 pitchers again.

Don't forget about Steve Trachsel - he was on that team as well. And for some reason, I always liked Jim Bullinger. Maybe it was cause he was so goofy looking. And was '96 the year that Castillo was an out away from a no hitter in that night game at Wrigley? I forget about Trachsel all the time. Hell I forgot what was going on between each pitch he threw. He made Clement look like the Flash. I assume a lot of other people here were at the one game playoff in '98 that Traschel started against the Giants. He had a no hitter going pretty late in the game but he was taking so much time that it really did not seem like he was cruising along. They cut off beer sales in the bottom of 7th inning of night games so I went to make a final beer run around the bottom of the sixth to be safe but was told that they were already done because of the time curfew had passed. Traschel and his slow pace caused the stadium to go at least the last three innings with no beer!! :evil:

Don't forget about Steve Trachsel - he was on that team as well. And for some reason, I always liked Jim Bullinger. Maybe it was cause he was so goofy looking. And was '96 the year that Castillo was an out away from a no hitter in that night game at Wrigley? I can't believe that Leo Gomez was our starting 3B that year. :shock: His .238 BA was pretty bad but the .344 OBP would make Billy Beane proud. Also, his .972 FA was the best in the league among third basemen.

It's easy if one takes logic and the realities of the baseball business out of the equation. I hope someday I can be as smart as you think you are. Man this board used to be like Cheers! Now it's the dirt bar!! Ease up everybody!! NORM!!! It's a dog eat dog world and I am wearing Milkbone underwear. Classic line.

It's easy if one takes logic and the realities of the baseball business out of the equation. I hope someday I can be as smart as you think you are.

It's more likely that Hendry help set the market by giving ridiculus money and years to two mediocre middle relievers. There was a quote from one agent suggesting as much. An agent said it? OMG it must be true! So Hendry giving 3 year deals for $4M or less pressured the Jays into giving Ryan 5 years at over twice as much per year? If true, that seems like quite an exaggerated response. More likely is that the Mets flirting with Wagner is what pushed the Jays into that offer. It is one thing to debate a point and quite another to take a point and run. Keep running you might get somewhere someday. As to my post. Agent's use figure to establish market value. Those figuers are know because of the collective bargining agreement. I do not know for certian that Hendry's overpaying of Howry and Erye led to Ryans outrageous contract, but here is what I do know. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-051118cubseyre,1,6706818.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines This leads me to believe that Hendry's offer was so far beyond what anyone else was going to give Eyre he did even need to look for other offeres. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-051123cubshowry,1,7027563.story?coll=cs-cubs-headlines Now Howry signed for 3 years for 12 million. I'd expect that these two signing had something to do with Ryan's contract. But that is just me. I like to form my opinions on evidence. I'm kind of crazy like that. How do you form yours? These two articles are your evidence? Eyre said he spoke with Rusch and liked what he heard about the team chemistry. What about that leads you to believe "that Hendry's offer was so far beyond what anyone else was going to give Eyre he did even need to look for other offers". Sounds like that was your opinion so you chose to read that into his comments even though he never said anything like that. A talent evaluater (on a side note, what the hell is that, the fancy name for a scout?) said that Eyre and Howry are the next best relievers on the market after Wagner and Ryan? Big deal. I hardly think that Ryan and Wagner were waiting around for Eyre and Howry to sign to set their market. It works the other way around. The big name guys set the market for the lower level free agents. Just because deals haven't been finalized doesn't mean that the word is not getting about how much teams are offering. I am pretty sure that the market had already realized that Ryan and Wagner were going to get close to 5/$50M and the dominoes start falling from there. All my opinion, since I am not part of the inner circle. However, neither are you, so don't pretend that you have any more insight into the process than anyone else. Get me a quote from the Jays saying that they offered this much to Ryan because of the Eyre and Howry deals and that will be evidence. Everything else is just opinion and conjecture.

It's more likely that Hendry help set the market by giving ridiculus money and years to two mediocre middle relievers. There was a quote from one agent suggesting as much. An agent said it? OMG it must be true! So Hendry giving 3 year deals for $4M or less pressured the Jays into giving Ryan 5 years at over twice as much per year? If true, that seems like quite an exaggerated response. More likely is that the Mets flirting with Wagner is what pushed the Jays into that offer. All three pitchers received 200-300% raises over their 2005 salaries. OK, then based on your theory Wagner will also receive a 200-300% raise since that is the "market" Hendry has set. Let me know when that happens. When did I offer up a theory? Eyre, Howry, and Ryan all received 200% + raises from their 2005 salaries. That is a fact. You seemed to imply that it supported the notion that Hendry set the market for Ryan by the signings of Eyre and Howry. If that is not what you were implying then I don't see the relevance of posting those numbers in response to my post. In any case, my original opinion hasn't changed. The Hendry signings of Eyre and Howry IMO did not influence the Jays to give this kind of contract to Ryan. More likely is that word of this type of offer caused Hendry to give a little more in years and dollars to Eyre and Howry than he may have originally planned in order to make sure that the bullpen was addressed to his satisfaction. I can understand the comments of people that do not feel Eyre and Howry are worth the money and it is possible they will be right. However, those that feel that the signings were good but that he should have gotten them for less I feel are not quite appreciating the difficulty of negotiations of this magnitude. Of course in a perfect world you get all the guys you want for $1.00 more than the next best offer. However, in the real world you sometimes have to extend beyond what you think might be necessary if completing a deal is very important to you.

It's more likely that Hendry help set the market by giving ridiculus money and years to two mediocre middle relievers. There was a quote from one agent suggesting as much. An agent said it? OMG it must be true! So Hendry giving 3 year deals for $4M or less pressured the Jays into giving Ryan 5 years at over twice as much per year? If true, that seems like quite an exaggerated response. More likely is that the Mets flirting with Wagner is what pushed the Jays into that offer. All three pitchers received 200-300% raises over their 2005 salaries. OK, then based on your theory Wagner will also receive a 200-300% raise since that is the "market" Hendry has set. Let me know when that happens.

It's more likely that Hendry help set the market by giving ridiculus money and years to two mediocre middle relievers. There was a quote from one agent suggesting as much. An agent said it? OMG it must be true! So Hendry giving 3 year deals for $4M or less pressured the Jays into giving Ryan 5 years at over twice as much per year? If true, that seems like quite an exaggerated response. More likely is that the Mets flirting with Wagner is what pushed the Jays into that offer.

Well, I guess they had to pay more b/c it is Toronto. I think they had $30M to spend this offseason. Giles and Burnett are still possibilities. It's only $9.4M per year. :lol: The years is what surprised me, although he is a very good pitcher. I'd rather have him at 47M/5 than eyre and howry at a combined 23M/3 (7.67M/year), but that dream is gone. You're insane and you owe me for trashing my support on Eyre and Howry's deals. It seems likely that Hendry saw that deals like this were on the horizon and that is the reason he moved quickly on Eyre and Howry at slightly higher money and years than most here anticipated. I can't help but think that the Ryan and Wagner (if it goes down as reported) deals will drive up the cost of the remaining relievers on the market. Assuming Hendry really looked at the bullpen as a main priority this offseason he must have felt he had to do what he could to lock these two guys up so he did not wind up starting next season with no improvement to the pen.

Sorry, but no way. The report yesterday was that Hendry was looking at 4/$38 million and Furcal's agent is on record as looking for 5?$50 miilion so it is inconceivable that it has now jumped to 6/$100. That is Beltran type money. The thought of paying a similar deal to Soriano takes this from the ridiculous to the absurd. Maybe the trade and signing go down but nowhere near these numbers.

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone. Getting: -Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK -Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers Getting Rid: - Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy) - Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm.. - Cruz for Anderson and Pratt There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man. *Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias? Hendry got Richard Lewis from Atlanta for Cruz along with Pratt I think Nova can be better than Farnsworth. We also got Moore and a really Toolsy but not much else prospect in Bo Flowers. Also, if you use the same "rental" theory that some here do on getting Pierre, then Detroit was just getting Farns on a "rental" since he was due to be a FA the following offseason. So the fact that Hendry got a solid reliever with good upside in Novoa and a prospect with big league potential in Moore does not look so bad. I think you are using the word solid a little too freely. I'll go down to serviceable, but that's my final offer. :wink:

True. However, I still beleive Cpatt is right. Hendry is at his best when he is going out and "getting" someone. And not at his best when he is getting rid of someone. Getting: -Aram & Lofton for B.Hill & JoseK -Nomar & Murton for Agony & 2 Minor League Pitchers Getting Rid: - Sosa for Hairston & Fontenot (plus we payed 12 mil for sammy) - Farnsworth for Novoaa and...uhmm.. - Cruz for Anderson and Pratt There are negatives on both sides, like he got rid of hundley. But he got Macias*. But I think the information points to Hendry being better when he is going after his man. *Not that Macias was "his man" but, still. why would anyone get macias? Hendry got Richard Lewis from Atlanta for Cruz along with Pratt I think Nova can be better than Farnsworth. We also got Moore and a really Toolsy but not much else prospect in Bo Flowers. Also, if you use the same "rental" theory that some here do on getting Pierre, then Detroit was just getting Farns on a "rental" since he was due to be a FA the following offseason. So the fact that Hendry got a solid reliever with good upside in Novoa and a prospect with big league potential in Moore does not look so bad.

I think something has to be going down SOON, since with the Howry signing the Cubs will be 2 men over the 40 man roster limit (assuming it still has not been resolved how they have 41 men after Eyre) and that means Hendry needs to move some prospects asap.

Also I also saw Torre quoted as saying that the Yankess were out of the running for BJ Ryan since they couldn't offer him the closer job. If Ryan and his agent have made it clear that they will only sign with a team that gives them money and the closer role then it takes some air out of the arguments that Hendry should have combined the Eyre and Howry money and just signed Ryan.

Raw, Good thinking! I think Beckett is a special player, so I think the Cubs must explore every avenue to get him, but if the ancillary benefit of doing this due diligence for a deal is that a pathway is created to get Abreu, then, even better. After the Marlins / Rangers deal goes down: Mitre, Novoa, CPatt and Pinto to Marlins for Blalock and Pierre then Blalock and Williams to Phillies for Abreu. This is my current offseason delusion.

Hendry misses the big picture, and that bothers some of us more than others, and some of us are more intellectually honest than others. Signing middle relievers to long and expensive contracts makes no economic sense. You all know the arguments by now. It's not like the Cubs have unlimited payroll. He pays way more than minimum to players like Perez and Macias and Blanco. Hendry perceives a lack of available mediocre talent. In all his talk about depth he doesn't understand that great frontline talent is immeasurably more important. Yeah, Baker is awful. But when Hendry signs Macias and Perez, and lets Baker carry 12 pitchers, well he is an "enabler." Some poster has a great sig. "Jim Hendry: Overpaying for mediocrity since 2004." That sums it up very nicely. Give me a break.

Isn't it possible Hendry has had interest from other teams for one of those 4 catchers & if one is traded he would like to have 3 on his 40 man roster? Isn't Reyes fairly young & has the potential to be a ML catcher? What kind of year did Brownlie have & what type of ceiling do we expect from him? Brownlie had an okay year out of the pen, but lost velocity on his fastball that he previously had in college. I think he would have made sense to protect over Aardsma. Brownlie may not have the big fastball anymore, but he can still get guys out by pitching intelligently. Aardsma really can't do either, but he can throw hard. There is less chance that Brownlie gets selected in Rule 5 and sticks on a 25 man roster all year than there is that if Aardsma was removed from the Cubs 40 man roster that he would have been picked up by another team and added to their 40 man. I don't know about that. I think that teams like Texas, Tampa Bay, Kansas City and Pittsburgh could use an arm out of the pen like Brownlie's. Also, if Aardsma got picked up in rule 5 I couldn't care less. Williams was the key to that deal, Aardsma doesn't look like much of a pitcher. Velocity means nothing if you can't control and locate your pitches. The point is that if you removed Aardsma from the 40 man to make room for Brownlie then teams would not need to use Rule 5 to get him. They would only have needed to claim him and put him on their 40 man roster. We will see about Brownlie, the numbers last year in AAA were not impressive and I think the lingering injury concerns hanging over him will probably scare teams away.

Isn't it possible Hendry has had interest from other teams for one of those 4 catchers & if one is traded he would like to have 3 on his 40 man roster? Isn't Reyes fairly young & has the potential to be a ML catcher? What kind of year did Brownlie have & what type of ceiling do we expect from him? Brownlie had an okay year out of the pen, but lost velocity on his fastball that he previously had in college. I think he would have made sense to protect over Aardsma. Brownlie may not have the big fastball anymore, but he can still get guys out by pitching intelligently. Aardsma really can't do either, but he can throw hard. There is less chance that Brownlie gets selected in Rule 5 and sticks on a 25 man roster all year than there is that if Aardsma was removed from the Cubs 40 man roster that he would have been picked up by another team and added to their 40 man.

The Beckett/Lowell for Blaylock/Pitching Prospect potential deal could make for some interesting options http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051119&content_id=1270572&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb (sorry for the long link) I know it is probably a long shot but I wonder if the Cubs could get involved in a spin off of Blalock to the Phillies and find a way to get Pierre and Abreu? Mitre, Novoa, CPatt and Pinto to Marlins for Blalock and Pierre then Blalock and Williams to Phillies for Abreu. It only works obviously if both the Marlins and Phillies are highly motivated to move salary. If the Cubs could pull that off they would be able to live with Cedeno/Walker/Perez as the middle infielders and not need to throw money at Furcal. Abreu would obviously provide the impact corner outfield bat and Pierre the leadoff man. Walker could be second and Cedeno/Perez eighth. What good is the offseason if not for thinking of virtually impossible scenarios? :lol: