Illini Iceman

I love this sort of post: "I didn't see the game and have no idea what the situation was, but I need to be crticial of what I did not see." And then follows that up with criticizing another move (Howry instead of Eyre) where the criticism is unwarranted if he had been watching the game.

Nope, it's the 25-man roster, not the 40-man. The only way another player can be added from your own system is if a player is on the DL and will miss the playoff series (and, of course, the player has to be in your system when that roster is set on Aug. 31). I don't think you're right....or if you are, then ms muskrats article was wrong on cubs.com (which wouldn't surprise me). You have the link? It's definitely 25-man + DLed players. Couldn't find the link, but I found this one: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1018841 Sounds like the rule changed this year. http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070830&content_id=2179672&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

I feel more comfortable with him on the mound than I would if I were Pittsburgh with Morris.

Yeah but we got Traschelle I guess it would be inconvenient to mention that it's his first hit in 9 a bats since joining the Orioles and he had three strikeouts in the previous eight at bats.

What?? Uncle Lou was talking about possibly starting Hart in Thursday in Houston, depending on whether they want to start Zambrano on Thursday or Friday against the Cardinals. Hooray for defensive miscues and baserunning blunders! Hasn't Marshall always pitched well against Houston?

Brett Meyers just checked in to say it was just a pop up.

And those Yankee fans were correctly labeled idiots by most of the rational world. Do you think Cubs fans are idiots for boo'ing Z? Z has done nothing close in the Majors to compare at all to what Arods done. Not idiots, but definitely selfish like Z said. I think people have a right to be selfish when they are spending their money to see a game. I suppose it's also selfish of me to hope a movie is good when I spend $8 to go to the theater. And it's selfish to expect good food when I go to a restaurant. Consider us all selfish! Do you boo your waiter if he drops a plate of your food? Z obviously realizes he didn't pitch well, which means booing just boils down to the fans trying to make themselves feel better. Or it means fans are emotional while at the game. Z is allowed to be emotional while pitching why arent the fans while watching? I think everyone has conceded that you are "allowed" and it is your "right" to do so as a fan. That does not make it correct thing to do, just like Z's emotional outbursts are not always appropriate.

Players should be able to take the booing with a grain of salt and just ignore it. However, they are humans and it probably hurts when people that are supposed to be on your side turn on you and lash out in a negative way. The players are supposed to understand how much we as Cub fans have suffered and how much we want a championship and use that as motivation to play harder even if they still get paid the same no matter what and don't have the equivalent emotional investment in this organization that a fan of many decades may have. However, it is a 2 way street and if we expect them to relate in that way to our situation as fans then it is not probably too much for them to expect to get some compassion in the other direction when things are not going their way. It has to be very difficult for a guy like Z who strives to be the best at what he does and has obviously a large competitive fire to not succeed. From his perspective he would hope that those that are supposed to support him (the fans) would do so and not take this opportunity to rub salt in the wound by booing. That being said, they make big bucks and with that need to know they are going to be held to high standards and expected to earn that money. Z probably does know that as well and that is why he will eventually apologize, but in the heat of the moment he is going to say what he truly feels and I think he truly feels like the fans (like a family) should stand by their guys through thick and thin. I understand what everyone has said and acknowlege how bad he has been and how disappointing it is. No one should take away any fans right to boo, but players also have the right to not be happy with being treated that way (no matter how much money they make).

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070901&content_id=2183408&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc Is that really the ONE thing he hasn't accomplished in his career? I think there are probably a few other things.

I agree he was wrong to say what he did but the booing is getting ridiculous. Z is a bit of a spoiled baby, but a lot of these fans are irrational. The team has a bad inning or a pitcher has a bad game and they are booing? It doesn't look like a knowledgeable fan base when they boo or throw stuff on the field whenever things go bad. The crowd reaction is like the way it is in game threads. Suicide alert whenever the Cubs are losing and cloud 9 when they are winning. 162 game seasons have high and low points and supporting your team seems a lot more constructive then booing them whenever they fail. Fans have a right to boo. They pay the salaries of the players. They boo'ed Z because he has sucked for over a month, not because he sucked today. It's Z's job to ignore the boos and do what is required of him. If he does that, the boos will turn to cheers. I know this booing argument has been done before so I don't want to beat that dead horse, but what are they booing? To me the reason I would ever boo a player that is on a team I root for is lack of effort. Does anyone doubt Z wants to win as much or more than anyone on that field or in the stands? If so, then is he getting booed because he is not good? Has there ever been a case of a bad player suddenly becoming good because he was booed and realized he should play well instead? Clearly Z has an issue with his mechanics or something else that is causing his effectiveness to drop. I think he gets that, but it would be nice for the fans to take the approach of "hey, we are behind you Z, we have faith that you get it together and help us win" instead of "you suck, you better do better next time or we will boo you and call you bad names". It just does not make sense to me.

I agree he was wrong to say what he did but the booing is getting ridiculous. Z is a bit of a spoiled baby, but a lot of these fans are irrational. The team has a bad inning or a pitcher has a bad game and they are booing? It doesn't look like a knowledgeable fan base when they boo or throw stuff on the field whenever things go bad. The crowd reaction is like the way it is in game threads. Suicide alert whenever the Cubs are losing and cloud 9 when they are winning. 162 game seasons have high and low points and supporting your team seems a lot more constructive then booing them whenever they fail.

The Pirates beat the Cards with the Pirates ACE on the mound The Astros beat the Crew with the Astros ACE on the mound... You'd think the Cubs would have a good chance of winning with their "ACE" on the mound against someone who's on the downhill side of his career...but no, our "ACE" sucks! This is a huge loss! Now that the Pirates and Stros can throw the rest of their crappy rotation out against the Cards and Crew...I don't think there's much hope for the rest of those series for Cub fans. And don't think it gets any easier for us...remember that guy Penny?? Yeah, he goes tomorrow.. Right on the money. The Astros crappy rotation did pretty well against the Cubs. Honestly, the wierd thing about baseball is that the Cubs will probably light up Penny after struggling against all these other guys. It seems to work out that way a lot.

If he keeps pitching this poorly there is no playoff roster.

YEAH, DAMN YOU, MATT MURTON! Oh here we go again. Just because his bad play wasn't the worst thing of the day doesn't mean you can't comment on it when it happens. Did you see the route he took? It was atrocious. Then he air-mailed the throw when we had a runner on the ground between 2nd and 3rd. Can he ever just be called out for a bad play without people thinking that he's being blamed for everything or that people are saying he sucks? He's either treated like a bum or baby Jesus. Why can't there just be some honest middle ground? Imagine if Jaque made that play.

No, it was his fault yesterday until the offense and bullpen bailed him out for a crappy start.

Wrong. He got off yesterday. Apologize for not keeping up to date on my Padres transactions.

Maybe he can donate half of this year's salary so some needy kids can benefit from his pathetic pitching. Barrett is on the DL right now, maybe the Padres would let him come visit the clubhouse and shove Zambrano again. Seemed to work the last time.

Can Trachsel be worse than this?

Laugh all you want but at least I have some sort of statistical proof to back up my opinion instead of just looking at ERA and saying see here is my proof. I cannot believe in this day and age there are still people who judge pitching this way. Thats not to say the Brewers have an amazing starting rotation. Sheets is an Ace, Gallardo is eventually a #1 or #2 most likely but Bush, Suppan, Capuano and Vargas are all #4/#5 starters. But the majority of the problems with the team's pitching this year compared to their 3 year averages is just how terrible the fielding is. So ERA isn't a statistic? What is so horrible about ERA, but so great about choosing a statistic which just ignores hits given up, and assumes that hits is a stat that the defense is entirely responsible for(which is a pretty simplistic view)? ERA doesn't correlate from season to season, it has an extreme amount of noise in it. Look at Joe Blanton in 2005 and 2006, he pitched better in 2006 and had an ERA that was way higher. ERA is a combination of luck, how well you pitched, your home park, your bullpen and the defense behind you. The stats I pointed are mostly just controlled by the pitcher and show much stronger year to year correlation. Even if you don't buy into something like BABIP the fielding metrics fully support the opinion. Teams with very good plus/minus universally have better ERA's than FIP's. Those with very bad plus/minus universally have worse ERA's than FIP's. There is a very real correlation between fielding and ERA and that is pretty much out of the pitchers hands. Capuano is a great example of a pitcher whose ERA doesn't really correspond with how he has pitched. 67% of his ground balls have been fielded for outs; the major league average is 75% so he obviously is giving up a lot more singles than he should. His bullpen has given up 3.904 runs more than expected on him. Compare his 2005 to his 2007 and he's actually pitched better overall but in 2005 he had a 3.99 ERA! Thats not to say he's a 3.99 ERA pitcher, he was extremely lucky in 2005 and has been unlucky in 2007, his true ERA level is probably around a 4.60 or so both seasons. 2006 is the only good year in his career and that was driven by a big reduction in walks. Every single stat except ERA disagrees with you and even if you are going to judge just by ERA they are roughly league average, not terrible. Anyway its not worth it, since anything I say will be chalked up to me being a Brewer fan. If you want to have a really honest discussion about how to evaluate pitching we can do that, but I don't think that is where this thread is really going. Capuano has sucked because hes giving up Hr's at an alarming rate. Yeah, he even gave up two to the Cubs in one inning which is a pretty amazing feat since that is usually about a week's worth for them.

I wish he had taken one away from him today.

Outshined, this is very well said. There have been several moments in the season where I thought that Ryno did something that didn't make sense *to me* but I also am not aware of what the organization is asking him to do on a daily basis. For instance, he sent Russ Canzler home in the game last night, and he was dead to rights at home plate. Could it be that he was overly agressive and tried to send him home or was this something the org wants our guys to be working? He tried to do the same with Marquez Smith earlier this week, and somehow Marquez missed the windmill motions of his manager (he would have been a dead duck at the plate too, btw) Overall, a very difficult question to answer. He definitely has the backing of the team - but would guess he's very much a "players" manager. That said, I would say that Jody seemed a bit more naturally comfortable in the role last year. He was willing to take a lot of chances just to try things (especially early in the season), where as I would say that Ryne is a bit more conservative. Then again, that could be said in general of their personalities, so guess that's likely not a big shock. By the way, Margaret (Ryne's current wife) is a very nice lady. She sits in our section and has been to nearly every home game this season. Various sets of kids have also visited Peoria this year, and all seemed great too. In fact, she was just mentioning to Mr Mac last night that they are RVing home to AZ after the season is over, so watch out world! Just my 2 cents. Nate could probably shed some additonal light here as well, as he's spent more time with this team than anyone else. Happy Labor Day weekend everyone! (oh, and LET'S GO CHIEFS!!!) Just out of curiosity, why would the Cubs organization want guys to be working on getting thrown out at the plate? Sliding practice?

The Cardinals disagree. Then the Cardinals are dopes, cause the Brewers are way better than them. You've asserted both that the Brewers are the toughest competition and that the Brewers are way better than the Cardinals. I agree that the Brewers are way better, but the same anomaly that would transfer the 1984 Tigers into a 65-win team if they were Cubs that year is working against the Brewers and in favor of the Cardinals, so despite talent, runs, or any other logical measure, the Cardinals will still prove to be the toughest competition in the division. Jayson Stark was right, unfortunately. I really have no clue what you're talking about. You agree that the Brewers are way better than the Cardinals but for some reason believe in some mystical force that is going to force the Cardinals to win the division. There's no magic involved at baseball, the Cardinals have just been a well run franchise for many years. Right now (for this season) they have been a poorly run franchise and should have no chance at the postseason because they are a bad team. The Cubs and Brewers are not excellent teams, but they are above average, something the Cardinals cannot claim. Duhhh. Haven't you heard about the goat?

you are right, it is not his job to get out of the way, but if the play was as you describe, the 'proper' play for a middle infielder is in fact to throw the ball at the runners head and make him get out of the way. going back to little league I was taught to 'throw the ball right at his head, he'll get out of the way.' It is not Brandon Phillips job to worry about the well being of Albert Pujols. the fact that he did in this instance is the main reason he is an idiot, not anything subsequent. And in the case of Pujols it is a really big target. Literally and figuratively.

Not completely on topic, but quite the welcome for Cherry and Monroe to the Orioles. Moore goes 0-3 with 2 strike outs as part of an offense that is no hit by a Boston rookie. Cherry goes 1/3 of an inning giving up 3 hits and 4 runs. Yikes! I hope Trachsel's debut with the Cubs is better.

No more than Moore and Cherry do. And I don't want the major league roster filled with guys that are marginal AAA players. As great as Cherry and Moore are I wonder how they made it through waivers? Typical September deal - mediocre veteran to a contender in exchange for mediocre prospects.