KingKongvs.Godzilla

Yeah you can't really evaluate an athlete without scouting an athlete, even in a world where only the numbers/results matter.

He'll get his ABs. I rarely expect significant playing time for September callups. For someone like LeMahieu, who might/probably/could/should have a long career ahead of him it's more a matter of seeing the world he'll be trying to build a career in. I think he'll need some minor league ABs next year anyway, and he'll probably start the season there unless the improvements we're looking for manifest this month and in March.

You find the fact that he's bummed he didn't get called up more disturbing than the fact that he was an ineffective pitcher? Due to the fact that he's maintained better walk rates when throwing more innings, yes. I know the numbers define everyone and everything completely in this day and age, but an individual who handles such a small, short term piece of adversity like he did (complaining in a public domain) would irk me numbers or no numbers. Carpenter walk rates in the minors: 2008 - 33 IP/6.3 BB/9 2009 - 130 IP/3.6 BB/9 2010 - 134 IP/3.8 BB/9 2011 - 42 IP/5.7 BB/9 He's also had better HR rates throughout the minors (significantly so), and better K rates (which picked up significantly while in the hitter friendly PCL). Maybe he was just having trouble adjusting to life as a full time reliever and was coming into games too amped up. I think the results problem is something he can overcome next year pretty easily so long as his little brat moment doesn't get in the way of his work. Results are the end of a process...a process that according to his tweet he was working hard on...being butthurt can be something that throws off that process.

It could very easily be an impediment to the hiring process. And just as easily, and as likely, not be an impediment.

Ex-[expletive]-actly. There are much bigger fish to try to catch this offseason, like one of the two Godzilla sized 1B who we can literally build an offense around for AT LEAST the next half decade. Plus, there's just no need to waste New GM/Savior's time looking for scouting/farm heads when the only gains this franchise has made in the past 3-4 years has been in the farm system anyway. I understand that what I just said here is up for questioning due to the fact that the outside world hasn't acknowledged the farm system with a high ranking yet and that surely the big league club would be good if the farm is any good. That said, overall I think the farm has been going in the right direction for at least a couple of years now adding a ton of up the middle athletes with a variety of skill and tool sets. It's a farm system that could be huge in the next couple of years within the whole of baseball once a few of the young guys get going. 2012 specifically could be a huuuuuuge year for the farm system with another top 10 pick, hopefully a healthier Hayden Simpson and McNutt amongst the pitchers, and then the growth of whoever shows up next year amongst the hoard of position guys they've collected.

Since I'm a fanboy: 1 - He just turned 23 so while it has been a while since expectations were laid on him, he's still very young. The fact that he's had success, tremendous success really, since then shows why those expectations have been laid on him and why they'll remain. 2 - His defense at 2B is very good, and overall his athleticism remains underrated...my guess because he's 6'4 playing everything but 1B in the IF and white (therefore not that athletic but WAY more intelligent amirite!?!?). I thought he showed plenty of athleticism when he came up to the show for 2B. To me his power will come from better mechanics (using more lower body) than coming from packing on size and muscle. I expect more power from other places, and I'd rather LeMahieu use the skills he has than force the issue on a skill that 1. usually arrives later than others anyway and 2. isn't going to be the focal point of his offensive game. I expect much of the power to come from one of Pujols/Fielder, for instance. Long term I expect much of his power will come between the gaps. When he's on his swing his tailor made for hitting the ball into the gaps. As far as Carpenter...I thought we'd see him up and I like the arm more than most of the many other relief arms, but that was a dick move on his part. I find his reaction to not getting called up this September more disturbing than his walk rate, as he's maintained better walk rates before while a starter.

Besides losing, that trade was once what the Rays franchise was best known for.

I actually like his arm. He's one of many guys who can be a good pen arm in the long run.

Harvey did that with the Red Sox, but IIRC it went nowhere.

+1

Of course he's going to have latitude on moves. Expect an Assistant GM. I mean latitude to replace or demote Fleita and/or Wilken if he sees fit. He'll have that too. When's the last time a hangup like that even happened for anyone? Even the Mets kept some guys when they did their overhaul last year. It just probably won't happen to any major extent. I just don't expect Fleita to be the assistant GM or have as many roles as he had under Hendry, but I expect he'll still be a key figure in the scouting part of the organization with Wilken.

LeMahieu*, who is the man. I think he's basically a bigger, possibly more upside version of Barney, a fellow former college SS with an intelligent defensive game and a contact approach at the plate. He's been a better hitter than Barney in the minors, and he's got 2+ years of youth on him for some power to show up (not to mention more size). His power has gotten better on a year by year basis, and I still hold out hope that he'll eventually ISO closer to .150. He's arguably the best of the bat handlers in the organization, and is a natural hitter. I think he's got alot of growth ahead of him and can end up a solid starter type when it's all said and done. He's one of those prospects that people like but won't hang their hat on because the flaws are obvious while the skills are subtle and most obvious through what are considered obsolete stats (BA and a lack of K's). Good to hear that Castillo is up too. Gaub should also be interesting.

Of course he's going to have latitude on moves. Expect an Assistant GM.

No, I was the guy not losing sleep over keeping him or firing him. I'm in the camp where contracts leaving and money being reinvested properly will go a long way towards getting this franchise back on track, which for a minute there in the 2000's they were. I know I'm talking crazy when I say this...but the results aren't always guaranteed to be there, even when things are done in the one and only way to do them right. You will have a better time getting results when you don't have incompetent idiots deciding how your money will be reinvested. Hence keeping Fleita and Wilken.

Unfortunately we already tried that. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=harvey002rya http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=dopira001bri a whole 2 high school players, wow. 2 high school players we invested millions of dollars in and had 80 raw power. Easily the best power prospects we've had in the past 10-15 years (along with Vogelbach). There's plenty of other examples, but those two are the best. Neither could hit a breaking ball to save their life, and generally had a ton of trouble making contact. They're probably part of the reason the Cubs went after Jaramillo and his contact based/aggressive approach (that hates walks).

No, I was the guy not losing sleep over keeping him or firing him. I'm in the camp where contracts leaving and money being reinvested properly will go a long way towards getting this franchise back on track, which for a minute there in the 2000's they were. I know I'm talking crazy when I say this...but the results aren't always guaranteed to be there, even when things are done in the one and only way to do them right.

I think you just made that up. Roy Halladay was all of 23 when he was sent down and rebuilt. I'm still not sure why you're trying so hard on this one. He threw up a 2+ WAR season (bbref) in '99 at 22, before becoming "the worst pitcher in the league" and then by 2002 made Wilken one lucky guy. Do you really find it fascinating that a HS pitcher needed coaching and development time to hit his stride as a pro? Did Halladay not become what you'd expect and then more out of a touted first round pick? No, he wasn't one of the worst pitchers in the AL. Nor does Halladay's 67 bad IPs in 2000 fall under legendary either. You're putting alot of effort into discrediting Wilken here, and it's through jabs with only hints of logic. I don't buy it. I'm trying here, but like your other arguments this has little to no basis in fact and it doesn't even make sense. What creates substance? Is that the only way to create substance? Do you have any proof of peripherals being ignored? What is so bad about getting a "a few good years out of a naturally talented player?" How do you know a player was drafted solely on looks? Should physical characteristics not play a part in drafting and scouting? Should players not struggle? What in the hell does Rios' and Wells' contracts have to do with Colvin? That sounds deep. Maybe you can put that in a place where it has more siginficance like an inspirational quote book. 1. Barney doesn't suck, but the continually baseless babble does... 2. That the Cubs have developed position players...Two very good ones and one who's having a solid rookie year. There's more on the way, all from under Wilken's watch (Jackson, Flaherty, LeMahieu, Szczur, Ha, etc, etc). So you don't know the Secret? But you're speaking as if you do...Is this some kind of hindsight based analysis that you're kind of just trying to force through the window of you being right? Seems like it. Lol I called it a job saver? The guy doesn't need to save his job. OTOH it's yet another moment in time where his scouting has earned praise from the baseball world.

Disagree on both accounts...45 isn't old and he's one of thE few FO talents this franchise has. Disagree all you want but you're wrong. He's been around for a very long time and is right behind Jim Hendry is terms of crappy baseball execs who screwed up the Cubs this past decade. He's also not young, so there's no point in pretending otherwise. Again, I disagree. The Cubs were screwed up all of last decade now? Revisionist history much? 45 is young.

Disagree on both accounts...45 isn't old and he's one of thE few FO talents this franchise has. James Loney sucks and there are only three 1B options for the Cubs this offseason: Fielder Pujols Pena

Looks like my gut sucks. It doesn't suck to keep him. What the heck is a young tapers player of suit? Phone typing...talent...Player or suit.

Why'd you have to do that? :( That guy was a ridiculous talent and if he had stayed healthy the Cubs of the 2000's would have won a series or two.

AFL is only one month away!

I'm still not sure what you're trying to do with the Halladay situation. I'm thinking he drafted him on size, fastball velocity, ability to spin a breaking pitch, mechanics, and whatever else he'd factor in. The coaches did their jobs with the talent he picked, and Halladay did his job. This is no different from what usually happens to make a successful player. Not mostly, tied. Either way, he was a reclamation project because he tore apart his shoulder and elbow, not because he was considered a non-talent or bad when he left Toronto. What does their contract have to do with someone the Cubs are currently developing who isn't even making half a million this year? It hasn't changed anything yet. Like Castro, Soto, and Barney, or just the ones who suck? Ah. You possess that foresight? What's the secret? They haven't produced much in the farm because much wasn't invested in the farm. Making the major league team better usually does that to a farm system, and for a while there the farm system helped this major league team win some games. Those days aren't even that long ago, and obviously that and more isn't some far off, impossible to achieve goal. The track record will tell them that. The lauded 2011 draft will tell them that. The depth in the farm system will tell them that. Even then, if this pretend issue becomes an actual issue then just buy out the contract. 1. Your Riccardi line not only has nothing to do with his time as a ML GM, but it's not even all that true. What stud has come out of Oakland in the past decade even? 2. A big jaw dropping wow to the rest of this. Friedman's boss was one of those "old scouts," and a damn good one. Epstein employs former bomb of a GM for the Royals Allard Baird in his FO.

I like this one: I believe this is true and it's reason #1 why signing Fielder/Pujols is such a key for the Cubs this year. And these: What these men need to understand is that they have a duty to us fans to make sure each and every player gets it, immediately, or else!

He did get completely overhauled. I'm still not sure what the significance of that is. He struggled, everyone around him (including him) acknowledged it, and he and the Blue Jays set about changing that. Good for them. I'm not sure how that reflects on Wilken. He still thought highly enough to take this guy in the first round, which is his job (not the coaching part). Carpenter was a disappointing but mostly above average pitcher in the AL who was closer to a #3 than a #5. He was disappointing because he was a first round pick who was a top prospect who didn't hit the ground running in the big leagues. If he held the 5 role, and I don't remember it perfectly, it's because he was very young and still not a finished product. I'd be pretty happy if he turned out like either, as there's far worse to become. Both of those guys have had productive major league careers and individual seasons. A greatly exaggerated claim IMO. It's more like they're not having any major successes right now. It's something I feel they've acknowledged and have been working towards changing, and personally I like what they've done even if it hasn't changed the tide instantly or close to it. Now we do. A couple years ago when the veterans were playing up to their talent level this wasn't so out there. That team fell apart, but their contracts remained. Those contracts and therefore those players are going away within the next 3 years. It's basically a product of the team winning less, which is something that can't really be helped without pouring more money into it. Depending on your beliefs, you may think that spending money on the team again would be a good idea. Ricketts has chosen another (and IMO wiser) direction by not pouring more money into a team he didn't even have a part in building. 1. That GM would be extremely lucky to have someone as experienced and proven as Wilken at his job. 2. Wilken actually left the Blue Jays willingly based on disagreements with the FO. In that sense, Ricciardi probably is a pansy if you want to think that way. Wilken instantly found work with the new front office of the Rays. Your assumption is wrong, and that FO for the Blue Jays was gone quickly itself. That FO was not and has not been praised for it's talent evaluation skills. 3. Friedman shouldn't be mentioned in Beane or Epstein's class. He's been a co-GM (though the title he carries is GM) for almost 6 years. Beane's done it for double that and then some and Epstein's accomplishments have been greater. Friedman's better than Ricciardi as a GM, I believe that, but personally I'm starting to think there's no more overrated FO head out there. He's an image...The young, savvy, energetic GM on the young, savvy, energetic Rays...it fits the direction the franchise wants to go. I'm more impressed by Hunsicker, who is finally being acknowledged as an architect over there in Tampa after building some very interesting (and successful) Astros teams....where he pulled off major deals for young superstars like Carlos Beltran and Randy Johnson when his team needed it.