KingKongvs.Godzilla

Rotfl...this is a joke. Just tell them to go [expletive] themselves and hire one of the other guys who are very capable of doing this job.

Oh OK, I can agree with that. I don't think Wilken would have been here much longer anyway, new GM or not. He's an older gentleman as it is, but more importantly he hasn't stayed with is past two franchises long enough to see the full fruits of his labor (maybe the Blue Jays, I can't remember the full time line). With the Rays he was there long enough to give them a few drafts, lay a foundation of how to scout and develop, and help them build their scouting department up. I expected when he took the job here he'd be doing something similar and would leave in less than a decade. I expect nothing's changed except his boss, and that he'll be gone when he feels his work here is done. I think his work will be done in one or maybe two years, at which point the farm system will be nearing machine status.

Whoa OK then you're totally right wtf was I thinking...Padres fans are praising the Padres system to a non-fan of the Padres? What next in this crazy new world I've woken up naked to? "Pretty good" at that? My god those are some major gains. It's like he traded an elite pen arm and an elite bat + picked in the top 10 or something. Though I bet it's something waaaaay harder to do/more creative than that.

LOL! Whatever that means right!?!?

I think the only major difference is that the Cubs will have their own, more streamlined, databases. I'm sure they've been building their own since Kaplan was added, but huge gains can still be made in that area. The whole point of the database has existed for a long time (are there certain schools/places that produce better players? Teams love Florida, Texas, and Cali for a reason...), but actually building one is a whole different thing altogether. I think everyone will work just fine together. The numbers vs. scouts thing is something the fans play with, but I don't think it's anywhere near as serious inside the game. Both sides probably know by now that they should be compliments rather than opposites.

I'm just being less passive aggressive in my opinion on Wilken. He don't think like us, and there won't be much room for that much longer. Make it known!

While I agree that some of the shine should be off the apple and rightly so, I also think there's plenty of signs that say he's more likely than not to be productive so long as he stays healthy. The bearing that is there is that the study is about how it's a very good thing to be very young as a prospect. That's been Vitters, who still shows all the skills we want to see except for BB totals.

Yeah I'm sure he feels that pressure. It'll be so hard for him because of the overwhelming power of the numbers, which he deplores with the passion of a 1000 gods. It's understood. The old man better catch up or off with his head (amiritie?!?!)!

Maybe the end of Tim Wilken's free reign here. CCP would say that epstein has a lot of respect for wilken's work. i would say that mcleod is going to be doing that job, for all intents and purposes. I'm ok with it if he does. But the early reports don't have McLeod becoming the scouting director for the Cubs. I'm sure he will have significant input into the draft either way, but it's left to be seen if he's replacing Wilken or not. They'll probably work together. I actually do believe that Epstein would have much respect for Wilken's work.

Because I don't believe either guy to be anything close to what they're perceived to be on Cubs boards in recent times. I feel as much as the lack of success has hurt them with the fanbase (makes sense, big money ML roster sucks so it must be the cheap minor leaguers bringing the team down), they're absolutely killed because they're not touted for their abilities with numbers. It's something I've come to perceive after reading a crapton of criticisms about them, and I don't think I'm wrong in perceiving it. I feel that both would garner much more respect if they said something generic about scouting players that would please the modern hardcore fan...something like "we're trying to get more OBP in the organization." For the most part they've both avoided that because it does nothing for anyone. Anyway, both are key cogs in the fact that the Cubs system was ranked 8th last year (pre-trade) and both are key cogs in the quick rise this system will be taking within the next 2 years (as they've planted much of the depth and foundation New GM and Friends will build on and with). Fact is, the minor league portion of the organization has been the closest thing to a bright spot for at least the past two seasons. It's given the team it's bullpen, it's best player, it's starting C, it's starting 2B, it's best pitcher (via trade), it's future GM (as compensation, if it happens), the former starting 1B (via trade), the former/2011 starting 3B (via trade), the whole bullpen (minus Grabow)....Much of that on the work of Wilken and Fleita....and note that that's the tip of the iceberg as Jackson, Flaherty, Jackson, Carpenter, LeMahieu, Dolis, and others are likely to reach the majors or already have...To me that's plenty of reason to keep them around, even despite their lesser intelligence, processes, and overall archaic train of thought. The Padres system isn't even all that amazing in the first place right now. To get it to where it is Hoyer traded an elite hitter in his prime and then had a top 10 pick in each draft round...I'm not knocking Hoyer's work because I know he's a competent FO man, but your statement is a little overdone. I don't think the work there is all that special, nor do I think that work in the farm system is out of the league of either Wilken or Fleita. Hoyer and McLeod will be very happy to be working with two guys who know what they're doing here, and both of those guys will be boons to the organization for however long they're here. Edit: Forgot one thing...They worked under Hendry, which is something that most consider a negative despite it just being what it is (that they worked under Hendry).

I'm sure Wilken understands that there will be changes under the new management. I'm sure he can adapt. I get the whole "he's a mangy curmudgeon stuck on the Old Ways....They're the number crunching wave of the future...He don't believe in no stinkin numbers...They believe the numbers can tell a pretty detailed story...Something's got to give! Eh? E? Eh?" storyline, but I just don't think it's that dramatic. I do think the storyline needs to exist as logically neither guy will stay too long under new management (maybe 3 years tops for the longest between the two of them), but I don't think it's because they'll struggle to survive and thrive in the new dramatically different ground breaking numbers crunching Cubs FO. I do agree that Wilken will walk out on his own accord. Not due to frustration or anything like that. He'll quit because he's old and in a couple of years the farm system he's been building will start having the reputation and results they've been working towards anyway, which is all that will matter (since a whole lot of younger people will get the most of the credit anyway). But yeah...overall I expect Fleita and Wilken to do alright under their new, much more intelligent and perceptive bosses.

They've done alright in player devleopment, just not great and it's never come together to form a WS winner. It's gotten better lately, and the organization is about to produce some bats after producing it's entire bullpen (minus Grabow). That said, yeah I do think they'll probably find someone to take the job title. OTOH, I think Fleita will still play a sizeable role in the organization's scouting and minor league work, especially in Latin America and possibly maybe Brazil. I think both he and Wilken will be considered assets and will be given their say in the FO, particularly in scouting.

This is far too interesring a tidbit to be buried in nonsense. Assuming they mean A Ball and not Rookie League, and Szczur and any '11 picks are off the table, some candidates are: Beeler Kurcz Antigua DelValle Batista Loosen Peralta Liria Rosscup Kirk Rhee Serrano Lopez Silva Alcantara Watkins Less likely possibilities LaPage Burgess Crawford Cerda Hicks Bour Jones ^^ This is what somewhat appealling minor league depth is for.

He's been in charge of the new Dominican Academy. He's been in charge of the Latin American program for a while IIRC...where he's made it strength in the organization. sounds like a good place for him then instead of being director of player development for the whole organization. I don't mind him in player development. That's an area they're actually getting better at, and it's one of the first things New GM will be credited for because the wheels have already been put into motion for success there.

He's been in charge of the new Dominican Academy. He's been in charge of the Latin American program for a while IIRC...where he's made it strength in the organization. A phrase. If I had left baseball out would we all be a little more comfortable?

I don't think anyone's role is going to get minimized. Boston had a huge and loaded FO with old minds, new minds, and everything in between. The idea should be to create an environment that eats, breathes, and shits winning baseball. I doubt Theo and friends' first act will be to alienate the FO guys that Ricketts did keep, particularly Wilken, who has a great history. Fleita's role will be reduced, but there's no way it wouldn't be reduced since he seemed to have his hand in many baskets.

Does anyone else see the comparisons between Lake and Soriano? - Minor league SS. - Cannon arms. - Free swingers. - Trouble with breaking balls. - Lots of K's. - Power. - Speed. - Middling D despite the athleticism. - Doesn't walk.

Have you been to SD? That's a good looking town.

Before Hoyer there was Byrnes? Is that the order?

Big get if officially true. Before Cherington there was Hoyer...

http://meandmybigmouth.typepad.com/scottpack/images/2007/11/19/teardrop.jpg

That would be cool. Been a fan since he was the pitching coach for the Angels...he and Farrell are two guys who IMO can break the whole "pitchers don't make good coaches/managers" mold.

Wait wait wait...there's other ways to build a good player and then a good team? Wtf?

You're missing alot of new info then...stuff like "Red Sox and Cubs still negotiating" and "an announcement might come as early as Friday"...you know...things that weren't around in the first couple days of this little...event.

Again, no. It's younger. The very obvious answer is because he's an elite talent. No way? Where's Theo btw? I don't think it eliminates any chance. It significantly hurts it, but if the Cubs want both they could get both. Those help. WAR...FIP (tied with Greinke at 3.51)...He's got a longer track record than any of them... No, the fact that he's stated he doesn't want to play in a big market means way more. The fact that he's suffered from depression and anxiety to the point he considered retiring is also somewhat significantly. Possibly more significant than being 3 years younger than Sabathia. Which means far more to you than it does to me. Either way you're paying a talent into his traditional decline years, and this is a pitcher who has shown no signs of significant wear and tear on his body or arm. I don't believe in your arbitrary age line, nor do I think it has to apply to everyone. Some talents, like a Sabathia or a Pujols, are very obviously not your ordinary, everyday talent and should be viewed as such.