Banghart

I have yet to read or hear anything about Byrd returning.

That's...ambitious. I'll hope for 16-8, which could get us within 5 games or so. Never said it was likely, but I couldn't help myself to start figuring out what they would need to get back to 500. I would love to see them go 16-8, but the lineup today for Cy Davis doesn't exactly lead to much hope to putting us one step closer to our first 3 game winning streak of the season.

I should know better than this, but if we go 18-6 before the All-Star break the Cubs will be back to 500.

I can't hear the name Farnsworth and not think of the HR that he gave up to Dunn several years ago at Wrigley. The ball flew directly over my head (I was standing against the fence in right) landed on the sidewalk across Sheffield and hit a building on one bounce. Huge homer and has to come close to the rooftop shot from cromagnon man a few years prior. I think back more to him tackling some guy who charged the mound. forget who. I think it was a Red. It was Paul Wilson, who was pitching for the Reds at the time. Sad that is one of the better memories we have Farnsworth.

I guess that really gets us to the point of this discussion. The Cubs were hit by some bad luck with injuries to Cashner and Wells early in the season, but there were some poor choices for this season that magnified that bad luck. Looper and Wellemeyer retiring were very predictable occurences and there were signs about Silva even prior to trading Gorzelanny (comments to the effect of the fact that he wasn't a kid or rookie so he shouldn't have to compete for a rotation spot were made at the Cubs Convention). The only point I was trying to make was that it would have been nice to have Gorzelanny as a backup option, and that this team might have a few more wins this year as a result. Given the other injuries and guys slumping were going to make this a lost season no matter what given the starting talent level of this team.

I don't see how Looper and Wellemeyer were really considered that viable as options. Looper hadn't pitched since 2009, and was a long shot to be anything close to what he was. What the Cubs saw made it appear unlikely that he was going to be good, and Looper choose to retire instead of pitching in AAA. Wellemeyer pitched 181 innings the past two years with a 5.86 ERA. Silva also was known for a poor attitude, and the situation with him was entirely foreseeable. I do recall what CubColt was saying about being out of options and not believing he could perform well in the bullpen. However, I don't think it was entirely unforeseable these problems with the pitching staff if the Cubs were couting on Looper, Wellemeyer and Silva as depth.

Was it to save cash or to get a pretty solid deal in return for a pretty average pitcher? Gorz's a nice pitcher and I was happy when he was here, but he's not so good that you pass up a deal where you get three intriguing prospects - especially when you consider that, at the time, we had Silva still around and he was similar to Gorz last year. Really, the reason to make a move with Gorzellany was because we had Silva around. A guy who at the time was pouting about having to earn a spot in the rotation after pitching like Carlos Silva for the whole second half of 2010. The players we got for Gorzelanny were AJ Morris, Graham Hicks, and Michael Burgess. They are 24, 21, and 22 respectively. Someone with better knowledge of the farm system can tell us if they are anything intriguing, but looking at the numbers and levels that they are at it would appear that Gorzelanny's 2.1 million price tag is the bigger reason he isn't here.

Gorz hasn't been stellar, and is hurt now as well. However, we have been getting terrible production from Coleman, Davis, and Lopez. Certainly Gorzellany would not have meant this team would be in the playoff picture, but it is an example of how Jim Hendry made himself thin at the positon with a guy that would have been a useful swing guy or someone to stash in AAA. As far as Riggins to Rothschild, it is an interesting question and unforunately I am not sure it is answerable. As respected as Rothschild is I would have to imagine it was a downgrade to Riggins, but how much that has affected the team I don't think we can know.

Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Pena really haven't missed that much time at any point this season either, and lets be honest this team was in free fall before the injuries to the outfield started to pile up. Look no one can say that the injuries haven't affected this team. I think most of us were of the opinion that this was a low 80 win team. I understand the dynamics that lead to this situation, but I don't think that completely excuses the front office from blame for the team being this bad.

Hendry also traded a much better option as the 6th starter in Tom Gorzellany away to save cash. The Cubs were hurt by bad luck in a lot of ways, but they certainly made several decisions to made the starting pitching thin as well.

I'm not sure I can add much to this discussion. It has been interesting to read, however. I, too, was wondering a similar thing when I made my way back to this place. I was part of the initial exodus from the Cubs.com forum, and while not a frequent poster I was a regular lurker for many years. I will admit that the past few years have sapped my Cubs interest, and if the Blackhawks were still making a run or it looked like football was going to happen this year I might have stayed away. That said it is kind of sad to see the main forums I would visit with little activity each day. I understand that it is difficult to talk about the rather depressing state of this team, but this forum was fairly active through the lull following 2004. A few of the posters in this thread have brought up issues that I think have been a problem for a while with issues of civility. Also I've noticed more than a few of the regular posters from the time when I was around more frequently appear to be gone for a variety of reasons. Since I don't know what the solution is I just hope for better baseball because it will make my summer better and this forum better.

I read that article as well, and I'm still unsure what if anything this means. Doesn't sound good, but it appears like it might just be a situation due to the weird conditions of the sale of the Cubs.

It is a little too close to DL for my liking...

As much as I think Pujols is the greatest pure hitter of this generation, I still can't help but htink that Fielder more fits with this teams needs. I mean when is the last time a guy less than 30 years of age has been able to hit 30 homeruns from the left side of the plate for the Cubs?

Well it depends on which Kouske we are getting in the leadoff. If we are getting the Kouske whose OBP is higher than 370 (it has been over 400 each month except June) then he certainly makes the most sense leading off. However, if the Kouske of second half shows up again then it doesn't matter where he hits because it is going to suck. I really like Fukudome's approach, and am glad to see Lou finally put someone whose main skill is getting on base at the first spot in the lineup.

Yea that would seem more than likely.

I never said that Marquis wasn't an average starter. I said that the Cubs have five better pitchers right now on the roster than Jason Marquis, and that is my problem with Jason Marquis.

The argument does seem to have bogged down here, but I can't help but chime in for why it is perfectly reasonable not to like Jason Marquis. The biggest thing is that Jason Marquis is not the best option for the fifth spot rotation right now. This isn't based upon some foggy notion of potential, but Sean Marshall was a better pitcher last year than Jason Marquis and is a better pitcher this year. What is wrong with fans wanting the team to put the best five starting pitchers in the rotation? Jason Marquis right now is the sixth best option. While it is not Jason Marquis' fault that for some reason Jim Hendry felt it necessary to give him that absurd contract after being one of the worst starting pitchers in the league, but it is clear that is why he was given the job out of spring training after being left off the postseason roster and is still in the rotation now. And while I don't like to get into arguments about player's attitudes, I think there is something to be sad about Jason Marquis earlier this year. I know everyone knows this, but I think it is worth repeating that Jason Marquis said he would rather play for another team then be moved into the bullpen. He was more concerned about himself than the team. That isn't even debatable like the tired Aramis Ramirez is lazy arguments. So on top of not being the best player for the job, I think fans are reasonable in there dislike for a player that clearly is more concerned with his position on the team than what is best for the team.

Minor off topic rant, but I get really tired hearing about how we potentially are getting screwed out of homefield advantage because of the All-Star Game nonsense. The thing that always seems to be forgotten is that best record was never used to determine homefield advantage. Homefield advantage alternated between the National League and American League winner. The last time it was done in this format was 2002 and it was the American League's turn, which means that if Selig had left things the way they were the Cubs, or rather I should say National League winner, still wouldn't have gotten homefield advantage no matter what the records of the teams involved. Sorry had to say it because I got tired hearing the same old arguments after the All-Star Game about it, and this was just starting to take on the feel of the Cubs getting screwed out of homefield advantage in the '84 NLCS myth. [/rant] The Cubs sure do suck on the road.

In keeping with the theme of bullpen arms that could possibly be had to make an impact, here are a couple of other lefties that Hendry might want to think about: 1. Eddie Guardado (TEX)- 2.70 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, 18 Ks, 9 BBs, lefty BAA .184 Steady Eddie has been pretty good this year. He pitches as well against righties as lefties, so he wouldn't have to be a specialist. With Texas going no where this season, and Guardado making 2 million at age 38 you would think he could be had. For the cost that it ought to take to get him he might be the best option. 2. Damaso Marte (PIT)- 3.22 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 44 Ks, 14 BBs, lefty BAA .250 Marte has pitched well this year as well. The K:BB ratio is certainly quite good. Interestingly enough righties are hitting better off of Marte this year than lefties. This is different than his three year splits so it is probably an aberration. Again Marte could be used more than just a loogy. Either probably could be had for a lot cheaper than Fuentes, and would fill a developing hole at the backend of the bullpen. Oh just one more thought about bullpens at this point. Wouldn't it be nice to have a lefty putting up these numbers: 2.77 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 34 Ks, 17 BBs, lefty BAA .143 That would be Will Ohman in Atlanta this year. Just something that popped out at me while digging through relievers to try and find some interesting options.

I know Bedard pitches on the West Coast now, but have you been paying attention to Bedard this year. Seattle is regretting that trade big time right now. Bedard has a 4.14 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP, not to mention his era+ is 96 this year. Bedard has been a below average pitcher this year. And DeRosa has been better than Roberts so far this year. The Cubs got lucky that Angelos saved them from themselves from giving up players like Cedeno for lower production, and this is why it is dangerous to mortage the future for a better shot today. You don't always know what you are getting, and there are very few pitchers out there that can be counted on for ace like production. Fewer of those pitchers are actually available at any price, and then the question becomes if the Cubs have enough even if they wanted to trade for an ace caliber starter. Rich Hill is unfortunate, and you do wish that the Cubs could have capitalized on his tremendous value in the offseason given his lack of production this year. However, there was no way to predict the utter collapse of Rich Hill. This goes back to what I mentioned above that you can count of very few players for top tier production. Ultimately everyone agrees that they want the best possible 25 man roster, but the question is how do you go about creating that roster. Everyone has untouchables. Very few people would be willing to trade Carlos Marmol in any deal, and you yourself listed one player you wouldn't trade under any circumstances. Everyone also knows that there is going to be a season in 2009 no matter what happens this year, and as much as I am enjoying the ride this year I want my team to be good next year as well.

I lived in China for about two years. Trust me, switching from an asian to western based language (or vice-versa) is one of the hardest things one can do in their life. Your comment, I dont know if it was sarcastic or not, but seriously try to have some respect for how incredibly freakin' hard it is to learn a language that isn't based off your own. I'd bet you, oh, just about anything, that you'd still suck at speaking/listening Japanese after five years. Let alone trying to read and write... Not to mention that English is one of the hardest languages to learn.

I havent heard Lou mention DH'ing Soto at all yet. He has talked about Lee a couple games and Aram, and at the time Soriano, but not once has he said Soto for some reason. Actually that was mentioned in a trib article today. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080612-interleague-play-chicago-cubs,1,7834562.story

I think everyone here is in favor of getting C.C. Sabathia, and I am sure most everyone is willing to give up any prospect to get him. I think what most people here question is two things. First if the Indians are actually going to trade him because they can just keep him and get the two compensation picks at the end of year or if we have enough to get him. Sabathia, if available, is going to be the best starter, and clearly the biggest need. I don't think the Cubs are going to be unwilling to trade for Sabathia, but I do have serious doubts we have enough, or of what they want, to get the Indians to trade him to us.

The question is if a guy like Bonds or Lofton would be useful during the time Soriano will be gone. All indications at this point suggest that this will be some time around six weeks. I don't know how anyone can dismiss the time it takes any hitter to regain his timing. This is not a question of how great Bonds is or isn't. Nor is it a question about him forgetting how to hit. Hitters that have been gone for extended periods of time usually go on minor league rehab assignments to start to regain their timing. Neither Bonds or Lofton have seen major league pitching in over half a year. I don't think it is fair to expect either to come in right off the street and produce. That is why the Cubs are better off hoping that they can catch lighting in a bottle with some combination of Hoffpauir, Patterson, DeRosa, Fontenot, and Cedeno rotating between 2nd and LF until Soriano gets back. If Soriano was done for the year, then I think the discussion about a Bonds or Lofton becomes a lot more serious.