neely crenshaw

You're missing a whole lot of singles there. bobby boy, batting average doesn't count. that has been what I have been told at every turn on this thread, and board. OB% and obp matter, can't change that to fit your argument now

made up stat. barney 39 games castro 42 stewart 40 dejesus 40 Lahair 39

:oldbluekoolaid: Give me some of the Barney Kool-Aid! freddy boy did you look before you leapt? not saying barney is even in that class. not saying there is any chance the stats stay the same. But everyone wants to spew 40 games stats like the are gospel and the fact is the difference between the two is minuscule castro:.316 .326 .421 .747 barney .273 .322 .396 .718 the difference is 3 bases in slugging percentage. 3 bases. so is that close or am I off

Whether you like him or not, Adrian Cardenas being 2 years younger than Barney and having better career minor league numbers than Barney is probably part of that as well. Management probably wants to take a look at Cardenas in the majors and see what he can do. We don't have anybody currently on the bench who could be construed as a better option than DeJesus and Stewart at their positions, which is why they'll continue to play. all true. not a huge difference between 24 and 26, at least as opposed to 26 and 32. I have questions as to why a team like oakland with so very little offense talent in their infield would release a former #1 pick who is 24. It raised red flags. It's worth a shot but I am not sure why Barney would be the target when others are certainly performing worse. But when you are grabbing stuff off of the scrap heap, you grab what's there.

south side are you ELL? those are his babip stats for his entire career. there is a reason why ground balls and flyballs are caught more often there is a reason that good hitters hit more line drives bad luck is hard to alibi on for 6 years Dunn's split from last year is better than Stewarts. it meant nothing to the end product, it was a blip in the sample not a sign that things were coming around. ANY TIME you use a small sample you can find stats that show improvement. Major league hitters, even bad ones will hit occasionally. Dunn's stats are to point out that showing Stewart's hot start to May means nothing if it isn't followed up or continued. the splits are from stewarts last week, and last 2 weeks again to illustrate why ops in small samples is not good. It is not to show that good hitters go 1 for 4 every game, it says that hitting for 5 games can greatly skew a small sample size like 20 games. So do we look at his entire month because that looks good, his last 2 weeks which doesn't look good, to decide if he is rounding in to shape. I am not trying to say I am right because of those stats, I am simply attempting to point out to you guys that looking at stats from 20 games doesn't mean jack. It's a horrible way to prove someone's ability or to judge their end game. Anyone can have a great split. My problem is that with stewart's split, it starts back down again...which I'll admit does not mean anything necessarily either because hitters go through peaks and valleys. My opinion is that based on his past, based on his first 41 games, based on his last 2 weeks it's more likely he is returning to his mean than rising to the top of his range. so far your best argument is that Dewitt doesn't have an "e"

just want to reiterate for clarity sake. you believe: I am a toddler I have no baseball knowledge I am a troll I am insane There is no reason to nay of my arguments I am saying: I don't think stewart will reach his career averages I don't think he is particularly good even at those averages I don't think there are many if any stats that support that he will hit those I don't think hitters coming from Colorado improve their offensive stats very often I don't think that a 20 game split of OPS means much of anything, and especially compared to much longer sample size like his career, his season, his last 3 seasons. I don't dislike stewart, I don't anyone should replace him, I just don't expect much from him. I think people who are so sure that stewart will be better than he has ever been based on some magic potion because he is a cub or very silly. I think it is even sillier that they grab what split they can to try to "prove" their opinion you guys think: that stats are normalized in 30 at bats that stewart will hit his career average or better for certain you feel that 5 games of hitting in May means more than the other 36 games of this season, or all of last year, or his entire career in colorado you feel he will be better outside of coors field You feel that this "hot" month which fits into "average" 3b stats makes him good You disregard his stats for the awful past week, and his bad past 2 weeks to focus on his hot month because that would ruin your argument as I said long, long ago we while find out. We can argue about what might happen as long as you want. We can guess based on any data we want, but after it plays out you really can't argue.

the only good stat is OPS for May . As I attempted to point out his Ops is brought by 3 hrs and 3 2b. he has 5 rbi. so prorate that over a season, he would have a stat line of .246 24 hrs 24 2b 40 rbi. where would that rank him? you compare 20 days to everyone's whole season and he is at the average. at the average is not good, it's average. of 30 3b, it puts him at 15? so that's good? his hot month is average beyond that attempt to discredit me, what do you have? here's my stat#1 I knew I could find it: 2011 Adam Dunn Apr 24 to May 14. 22 games(compared to 21 for stewart) 78 plate appearances, 65 at bats 17 hits 7 2b 2 hr 13 bb that is a .261 .384 .461 .845 line yet despite that he had been one of the most consistent hitters in mlb, he finished .159 .292 .277 .569, yet you are so sure that this little blip is proof that stewart is coming on. there is absolutely no comparison in the history that backs Dunn compared to stewart. stat #2- you want to talk babip? career he only 17% of his bip are line drives. 83% are flyballs and groundballs. he has a .217 babip, he has .180 on ground balls, while on his 17% line drives he hits .754. This tells me that he isn't unlucky, he is hitting lazy flyballs and easy groundballs more often than loud outs. stat #3 don't believe me that his May stats could be artificial? last 7 days .133 .316 .133 .449 last 14 days .189 .318 .324 so do you think his 5 game run in which he got 9 of his 14 hits, his 3 2bs and 2 of his hrs. and hit .363 is bumping up his May or is the rest of the month where he went 5/38 hitting .131 with 1 hr more accurate? So as proof of his turning it around do we look at this month but not the last 2 weeks? and did we get that long list of hitters who improved after leaving colorado yet? I know you intelligent posters can't take it but there is an really strong chance that stewart will not hit his career averages this year. You also can stand that using a stat like OPS over 20 games to make a point about improving is not valid. Certainly even you can see that a stat where 5 games of .363 .518 .818 1.336 so greatly outweighs 15 games of .131 .266 .210 .476 that you can't consider it relevant.

just wonder why? it's not really that he has had days off, it's that 6 of 7 have come in the last 20 games, and that happens to be the time when he is hitting batter than anyone but Lahair. on this team clearly it doesn't matter who you sit out and who you play. Even Lahair can a effect a game so much by himself.

First of all, he's about right in the middle. Secondly, that doesn't mean he's good and worthy of praise; this is a pretty terrible team offensively. for the season he is outperforming Stewart, Soto, Soriano easily. he is right there statistically with castro, yes castro he is very close to Dejesus slightly better slugging and OPS than Campana, slightly worse average and ob%. no one saying he's great and he plays on this team so it makes sense to compare where he fits on this team.

30 at bats? normalizes a stat. So 8-10 games(30 plate appearances) we have a good indicator of what everyone's stats will be. good news for Lahair. can I ask where you came up with that. so if Batter a has an ob% of .360 for 25 at bats and got on base 5 straight times, it would be normal that his OB% jumped .106 points, and that would not give a skewed result?

Batting order doesn't really matter. The fact that he's playing just about every day kind of negates the notion that he's been "jettisoned" in any way shape or form. this is good to know because all this years we have complained about our leadoff guy, and made fun of managers that wanted to put Soriano there, all along it really never mattered. I know you are just jumping in halfway through, so please understand..I have not said anything about anyone being better. I only wondered why it seems that Barney is getting moved out. Instead of ridicule, a great answer may have been- They see Barney as an 8 hole hitter in the future on hopefully a much better team. OK, that would make sense. My question was why is he sent to 8th, when other players are doing far worse than Barney has done. I also wondered why he has been out of the lineup now 6 times over the last 19 games despite his stat line going up. To me it seems like they are working to replace him. I can certainly think of many other spots that seem to be much more glaring weakness comparatively. He's been out of the lineup 5 times over the last 19 games. He's been out of the lineup 7 times all freaking year, and he's Darwin Barney. are you making things up, guessing or simply can't read? 1)April 15- DNP- did not play 2)April 22 DNS-did not start 3)April 30 DNS 4)May 2 DNS 5)May 8 DNP 6)May 20 DNS 7)May 21 DNP So that is 7 times this season, and 6 times in the last 20 games (not the original 19) April 30 to yesterday. Part of the point is exactly what you state. In the first 21 games he sat once, in last 20 games he sat 6 times. That seems like a change and it strikes me as odd considering his stats over that period are way up, and yes better than stewart's huge hot streak that everyone wants to use as proof that he's actually good. Yes, he's Darwin Barney, who happens to be out performing most of our other starters.

DeJesus OBP in 2004: .360 DeJesus OBP in 2012: .360 And the average AL OBP in 2004 was 20 points higher than it was in the NL this year. But yeah, consistently gone down. by the way soccer, that would mean that an OB% of 360 in 2004 would be the equivilent of .340 this year. Thanks for the help it shows even more for my point that his 40 game split of .360 will likely go down this year. ohhhhhhh man do i love this post That's fantastic stuff WTF? he puts up a stat that in truth shows the opposite of his point, and I point it out and you have an issue with that?

The thing is, these are all questions you could easily answer yourself especially considering your tremendous knowledge of baseball. so your answer is? I stated my thoughts. the I got answer was Dejesus has a 40 point better ob%. But that wasn't the question.Never even said he should replace Dejesus, just mentioned that his stats are very,very similar. how about you compare his stat line to Castro? oh, their OB% and OPS are virtually the same (the only important ones right?), or Soto, or Castillo, or Stewart, or Soriano, yep, you guessed it! his are better. he is dropped and benched because?

Yes when that is a career low for the 10 year vet, and it was primarily driven by a career low in BABIP in one of the most pitcher friendly ballparks. And the 2nd year player put up numbers that are pretty much what his minor league career would have predicted. I'll give you the point on oakland. However without having watched it seems that the biggest problem is that the ball doesn't carry, and I felt that may not be a huge factor in DeJesus game or stat line, and he actually had his 3rd highest HR numbers. SO it's tough to tell. Barney's numbers in the minors averaged .335 ob% and trended up in his 2nd season in each league, AA .339 TO .368, AAA .304 to .333 to .400. It could be said he could/should trend upward. DeJesus certainly could jump up his stat line to his current, or around his best. I kind of see it as a trend down. We won't know until we play it out. I also see Barney as potentially moving upward toward Dejesus' stat line. Again we won't know until it plays out. I do think it's nuts to say that either of those will or won't happen for sure. In this year it makes more sense to hold unto to hope for the younger , less experienced guy over the older veteran player. To make chatise someone who would question the validity of that possibility is ridiculous.

Batting order doesn't really matter. The fact that he's playing just about every day kind of negates the notion that he's been "jettisoned" in any way shape or form. this is good to know because all this years we have complained about our leadoff guy, and made fun of managers that wanted to put Soriano there, all along it really never mattered. I know you are just jumping in halfway through, so please understand..I have not said anything about anyone being better. I only wondered why it seems that Barney is getting moved out. Instead of ridicule, a great answer may have been- They see Barney as an 8 hole hitter in the future on hopefully a much better team. OK, that would make sense. My question was why is he sent to 8th, when other players are doing far worse than Barney has done. I also wondered why he has been out of the lineup now 6 times over the last 19 games despite his stat line going up. To me it seems like they are working to replace him. I can certainly think of many other spots that seem to be much more glaring weakness comparatively.

actually I have answered it pretty much everytime. I have never once said he should bat lead off. I mentioned Campana might be worth a look for future reference to see if he can be that guy.

DeJesus OBP in 2004: .360 DeJesus OBP in 2012: .360 And the average AL OBP in 2004 was 20 points higher than it was in the NL this year. But yeah, consistently gone down. by the way soccer, that would mean that an OB% of 360 in 2004 would be the equivilent of .340 this year. Thanks for the help it shows even more for my point that his 40 game split of .360 will likely go down this year.

no jar jar, he does not really? the best you can do is ridicule someone's typing?

I don't think Barney should bat lead off. I do wonder why he was jettisoned to 8th when his stats don't actually deserve it. If he is on a strong team, then yes, 8th would be a spot for him. I was not actually arguing the point, but started off by wondering why some others were sent to that spot. As for Campana, why not find out if he is a lead off guy? If he can produce his stat line all year which is the same as dejesus plus potential league leading steal totals, it would certainly add to an offense that has 19 homers outside of Lahair. If he is on, and steals second-which he doing about 40% of the time he is on first, that means that nearly over 30% of his at bats he would be on second, for say Dejesus batting 2nd, Castro and Lahair. Does that make sense? I don't know if he can keep it up after pitchers and defenses see him a few times, but why not find out. DeJesus may be the best option, but if we are working toward the future is Dejesus going to be that guy at 35 in 2014? will he be here? Other than the salary, it's like pena last year. Yes, he was the best we had at 1b, but if you are going to have the 2nd worst record in the national league does it make more sense to have played Colvin there all year, through thick and thin to find if he was going to be a player. I loved Pena, but would we be better off losing 10 more games and knowing if Colvin, and now it may have nice to see LaHair- then we would have a better idea if his stats will be real, or just a blip on the radar. I can't see why posters think it's crazy, in a year where we are 15-26, worst record in the NL, with pretty much nothing on the horizon that says we will greatly improve anytime this season, we make some moves to get better or at least evaluate things for next year. just don't see why that is such an attackable position, or why it warrants having my baseball knowledge, my identity or ideals ridiculed or questioned.

As for Barney, someone please just point out a negative. does he get in trouble off the field? does he play bad defense? is he too old, and reached his peak? is he slow? can he not hit at all? is he a clubhouse problem? is there no chance that at 26 and in his 2nd year in the majors he has some growth possible? since he "only" had an OB% of .313 in his rookie year, there is no chance he raises that say 20 points? does he make too much money, or too much money for his production? how about this? at 26 in his 2nd year, with a 2011 stat line of .276 .313ob% .666 ops is more or less likely that his stats will go up over this year and next. while a 32 year in his 10th time around vs major league pitching with a 2011 stat line of .240 .323 and .698 might go down or at least not improve? Am I off on common sense here? a younger, less experienced player has a better chance at improving over the next few seasons than a 10 year vet who is 32? is that really a crazy thought? you guys have such love for DeJesus and want to point out his OB% as such a huge difference between the two. it's currently 45 points. Sounds huge. But then you get upset and call me a toddler and a troll when I factually point out that over 150 at bats, that's getting on base 5 times more. not even thinking about possible upswing or downturn of each line, or the fact that Barney has more of chance to improve, while Dejesus is a finished product. over 41 games getting on base 5 more times equals 1.25 times more often over every 10 games. So you basically dismiss Barney for life because DeJesus is getting on base once more every 30 at bats. ONE TIME IN 30 AT BATS. yes, that is a mind boggling difference.

DeJesus OBP in 2004: .360 DeJesus OBP in 2012: .360 And the average AL OBP in 2004 was 20 points higher than it was in the NL this year. But yeah, consistently gone down. that's 8 years ago. that's 40 games in 2012 in every FULL season since 2006 his ob% has gone down save for his one unexplained year, where he hit over .300 for the only time, he only hit .300 once in a full season in the minors. so that tells me it's rare. I use full season because it's not accurate to use obp stats, or ops, or slg over short stints simply because 1 small streak changes them greatly. so in your posted stat line, no they haven't gone down. but in reality 2006 .364 2007 .351 2008 his one big year 2009 .347 2010 90 games played 2011 .323 what do you call that? I call that going down each year. yes, he had 1 spike, but that is a downward trend. If you can guarantee me that there will be no fall off, and he will have a .360 ob% for the year, you are dead on. However you can't honestly do that. We can hope he does that, but we can say he will for sure, especially when he hasn't had a .360+ obp since 2008 4 SEASONS AGO! disagreeing with you is not being a troll. disagreeing with your liberal application of stats like showing 2004 stats, and stats for 40 games this year is not being a troll. defending personal attacks with data is not something someone should be banned for.

NL 3B in 2012: .245/.315/.400/.714 MLB 3B in 2012: .249/.312/.402/.714 That .795 OPS Stewart has in May would put him fifth in OPS in MLB out of the 17 qualified 3B in 2012, behind only Wright, Moustakas, Beltre and Cabrera. Guys he would be ahead of include Freese (.787), ARod (.779), Hanley Ramirez (.753), Zimmerman (.697) and Lawrie (.690). It should be noted that, if not for injuries, Stewart would also be behind Longoria and Sandoval. how about you compare his year to their years, or his "hot" to their best 18 games streak? I won't do the leg work but I am guessing that guys who are above .700 for 40+ games have an 18 game stretch of much better than their average. here's an extreme example to attempt to illustrate the fallacy of using stewart's 18 games vs a season. erik aybar has a 7 game split of .455 .455 .682 1.136 which puts him number 1 at shortstop in every single catagory and way above the average for MLB shortstops. Now it clearly doesn't matter that his seasons stat line is .228 .248 .297 .545, your thinking has just annointed erik aybar the number 1 offensive shortstop in the major leagues logic be damned!

you are using 18 games vs 3 years for beckham, and an entire season for 3b. I'm willing to bet that I can go find an 18 game streak from adam dunne last year that was decent, it certainly wouldn't indicate he was good. over 18 games 100 points of ops 1 homerun. not too mention that most people think Beckham should be sent down, while because of 18 games you guys want a statute of stewart built outside wrigley. Beckham was a close, local comparison that I chose to illustrate the absurdity of the statements. rather than just throw out a meaningless stat like OPS (for a small sample, please don't cut that out and use it) look at his game log. In those 18 games, he has 3 hrs, 3 doubles. 5 rbi total, 3 rbi from his extra basehits. we have gone 7-11 as a team including going 2-8 in the last 10. he has a hr and 2b and 1 rbi in an 8-2, hr and 1 rbi in a 5-1 win, hr,1 rbi in 3-1 win, 2b 0 rbi in 6-4 win, 2b in a loss. that's his hot streak broken down and exactly how many wins did it really effect? now here is an example of how small sample OPS is skewed. Ian Stewart 26 total bases during the streak, 12 hits. 3 2bs, 3 hrs, (again 5 RBI)...65 plate appearances, 56 at bats Josh Hamilton 1 game 18 total bases, 5 hits, 1 2b, 4 hrs 8 rbi, 5 plate appearances and at bats so to match stewart streak, hamilton needs to have 51 at bats, 60 plate appearances, and 8 total bases so his stats needs to 7 for 56 or .125, 1 2b. 8 walks and 2 hbp or some combo of that. So outside of his 1 huge game how much would that OPS help his team? OPS is great stat for a season or even better for a 3-4 year period. In a small sample it just doesn't reflect as accurately. Much like talking about Dejesus having a 40 point lead in OB% over Barney, which if over a season is big but over 40 games translates to being on bases 1.25 times more for every 10 games. yes, dejesus has been on base 5 more times than barney (prorating for same number of at bats)

THESE SENTENCES WERE WRITTEN CONSECUTIVELY again, south side quit being a prick. that statement is a retort to the dumb @$$ post about stewarts hot month, I did not use that stat line first, it was to show he had just a good a small sample as the others, and that he is just as, if not more likely to improve his line as a guy with a longer track record. that borders up there with taking offense to an e on Dewitt. by the way Ryun*, if you want to be prickish- D-E-W-I-T-T is wrong. It's Dewitt. Only caps on the first letter

Wait, what? How often have we seen players leave Colorado and put up better numbers? Colorado can bump up guys' numbers, but you're talking about it like ballplayers there are like Superman getting a suntan. Just because someone doesn't put it together in Colorado doesn't mean they can't have success elsewhere. I mean, Stewart actually had better power numbers AWAY from Coors Field. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hwSI4Bvw4O4/T2WIr0NXiXI/AAAAAAAABaQ/p7JZ5rYwpbE/s1600/sigh.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4e/Meatwad.png/200px-Meatwad.png you are talking 5 years in colorado. it's a pretty large indicator. Please start the list of players with better stats after colorado...i'm sure there could be some, but it will pale in comparison to the other way around. It may happen but how can you argue that far more often it goes the other way. far more.