sharkfan50

I don't know which was the more ridiculous post, this one or your first one. First, I don't ever recall anyone trying to compare Pie and Upton. 2nd, Upton was a known quantity and was taken at the top of the draft. Pie was signed off of the streets of the DR. Upton was raised to be a ball player his whole life. Pie never played any organized ball and never had any instruction until after we signed him. He was shining shoes before that. All things said, Pie has some holes in his game, that's true. His learning curve is not "pattersonesque." He's had far less experience playing this game than perhaps everyone else in the league. Probably every other (or at least over 99% of them) player in this league has been playing baseball since they were kids. Not many guys start really learning the game when they're 17, so you can't compare his learning curve to anyone elses. No one ever expected ARod type numbers out of him. That would be ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to cut him off now and say he's reached his limit. The only times he's struggled were his first season at AAA, and at this level. He adjusted and killed AAA the next year. Give the kid a little time to get more comfortable in this league, then enjoy watching the former shoe-shiner succeed while having fun at this level. There's absolutely no reason to hate on Felix Pie. And if you think the difference between Pie and Reed Johnson is going to have any long term impact on our winning this year, you're delusional. That has to be the dumbest statement I've read on this board this month. As a matter of fact, one of those games that Johnson started we won only because Pie came in and got the game winning hit in the 15th. The point of my post is I really don't care if Pie hasn't shown you squat. That's why you thankfully have no say in the matter. Thanks for the response. Great that everyone has different opinions on a varying array of topics, isn't it? I'll talk to you at the end of the season about Pie. Oh and no I don't have a say in the matter. It's silly that you even considered that. This is a message board, right? Where people exchange opinions, correct? No I don't have a say in the matter and since you're under the opinion that Pie won't be going anywhere anytime soon, I'll make you a gentlemans bet that the "powers that be", are leaning more and more in my direction of thinking that Pie should be sent down to AAA. I'll bet you that Felix is sent down to Iowa by middle of May.

Jeff has only touched his potential and it'd be unwise of you to think that at worst, he'll only be a "serviceable" Major Leaguer. You can chalk it up to Jeff's football background but he's the hardest working Minor Leaguer out there, including position players. Combine his work ethic and mental make up with his raw abilities and I wouldn't put anything past Jeff. I wouldn't ride him off because of his K/9. This is a big year for Jeff no doubt.

Actually, no, that's exactly how many ab's he's had this year in his sporadic playing time. Actually, It's been 200 ab's for Felix. Since his ab's look virtually the same to me this year as they did last year, they're all the same to me. He hasn't changed a thing. Sure, Upton struggled last year at the age of 19 but unlike Pie, he's already progressed this season from last season. Again, it's not fair to Felix to compare the two, because Justin will be a very good player and an All Star in this league for many years and Felix won't and it's not because he doesn't get "regular" ab's. Just my opinion.

Right now with Pie and Theriot in the same lineup, it is a really bad lineup as Theriot essentially hits 2nd then. With Johnson in the lineup, he can hit 2nd and push Theriot down to 8th. Problem is with your logic IMO however, is that the Cubs have a replacement at CF and not at SS. No trades for a SS will be coming anytime soon either. That's the harsh reality of a team that is made up with a bunch of vets and a big market team: The focus is on winning and not "developing". Right now, that's what Felix is in the process of and that is damn hard with the expectations that surround this team. Some "prospects" can handle it, but I don't think Felix can, sadly. He needs to be sent down to AAA.

They litter Cub blogs from coast to coast not just this one. I know I'm coming across very harshly, but believe it or not, I want what's best for Felix and riding pine with the Cubs is not what's best for him. I still haven't completely given up, but what I have conceded, is that he is not ready. He can't build up his confidence riding pine and looking absolutely lost at the plate at this level. The Cubs need to call up Murton and send Felix down to AAA and get ab's and get his confidence back up and maybe raise his trade value as well. He is the weakest link right now on this club and you'd be a fool to think he doesn't know this.

I'll respond to everyone in one post. 1. I'm a Cub fan, hence the "sharkfan50" username, genius (Yeah I know he don's the number 28 with the Smokies, but when I made up this account it was ST and he was 50 on the ST roster). But I'm in the minority of Cub fans and that I can admit when a prospect I once raved about, won't amount to much and I can let go. To think of the players we could've gotten back for Felix at one time. What a waste. 2. I totally love the sarcasm, seriously, I do. So NSBB. 3. Pie has had more than 22 ab's. 4. Yeah, obviously Upton is one of if not the best prospects in the entire game and it isn't fair to compare Felix to him, but my point is, Pie's learning curve is corey pattersonesque and I just don't see him making the proper adjustments, where as Upton, you can see him making adjustments from ab to ab. Like a true prospect and one with a very bright future in this game. 5. I'm just trying to be nice and to ask Cub fans to stop making excuses for Felix because they've been hyping him up for the last 4 years and it's healthy to to admit that Felix will never be the player they've envisioned and hoped for. 6. If you keep making excuses for Felix, you're only hurting yourself and this team with those unhealthy thoughts. He is hurting this team right now as he still is not ready. Right now we have a better player in Johnson and someone who needs to play 5 games a week until the Cubs call up Murton. 7. I seriously wanted Felix to be a part of this team and to contribute to this team, but I've accepted that he isn't ready and he most likely never will be.But for sure, he is not ready right now. I care farrrr more about keeping this train rolling and making it to the Playoffs and the World Series than I am about the "maturity" of an individual player who is hurting the team at the same time. 8. The point of this thread, was to point out that Felix Pie has shown me squat and Cub fans need to start accepting that he isn't the prospect or future All Star that we once thought or think and that he actually will not be anything but an Angel Pagan type player and will be a journeyman. So let's stop making excuses for him and when he get's sent back down, to embrace it. Because it'll be the right thing for this team and to not cry" he never got a fair chance bwahahaaha. Lou piniella is so mean and loves vets etrc etc etc." which will be the cry here and already has been. 9. The Cubs haven't lost a game in which Reed has started. Yet there's still Cub fans whining that Felix should start and get more ab's. Good thing the majority of Cub fans (not just on this board) aren't Managing the Cubs and Lou, who wants nothing more to do than win and cares about the overall success of this years team, is the Manager.

On Fox Sports the headline for this story was "Tased and Confused". awesome.

Justin Upton, 20 year old OF for the Arizona Diamondbacks. Hitting .368 on the year and hit his 4th HR tonight on this young season. Not only is he putting up numbers, you can see clear as day that here's a kid who "gets" it, who is learning from ab to ab, the most important thing to me, when looking at a prospect. I live in AZ and watch Upton on a daily basis. you can't even compare him and Felix together, because Felix is an overhyped prospect who won't amount to much in this league and it's very plain to see by many who aren't making excuses for him. Sure he's put up decent numbers in the Minors, but those players who have success at the Minor League level but fail miserably in the big leagues are a dime a dozen. Felix' main problem, is his swing is too long to catch up to a MLB fastball and now he's all messed up. He doesn't need more time here, he needs to be sent down to AAA. I know I know, "he's already proved he can hit Minor League hitting...yada ydaa yada. I don't care anymore. He doesn't belong at this level. It's painfully obvious to see, if you just take off the rose colored spectacles. He needs to completely reinvent himself. Maybe more of a slap hitter because he'll never make it at this level with that swing and terrible plate discipline. Yeah there's been hitters who have have successful careers with longish swings, but only because they were smart hitters and made pitchers throw strikes. I don't think Felix is a smart player. They need to send him down and bring up Murton. Platoon Murton and Johnson in RF against L/R and start DOme in CF against Lefties. That will happen soon enough.

It was one season. That hardly makes him a proven pitcher and to squelch any doubts anyone might have about him.

Zambrano's season last year was the worst of his career. He's winning 20 this year however while Hill will put up a +4 ERA. I'm not saying Hill is terrible or that he should be removed from the rotation, but he really is just a mediocre pitcher with only 2 pitches. I just pointed out that some comments made about him in this thread were talking like it's blashpemy even mentioning that he might not be as great as some of you on this board point out or seem to think. Like he's some proven veteran. We'll see if the league catches up to him this year. If he puts up the same numbers as last season, then he's one more year closer to being a proven commodity. I just don't think he will. I see him taking a step back this year and I've been saying that for awhile, especially when I saw him this Spring and was dissapointed he still doesn't have a change up in his repetoire or a quality 2nd pitch.

I like Lieber as the long man out of the pen. With the exception of Zambrano, the Cubs have medocre starting pitching and will have their games where they get shelled and a long man is a very valuable asset to this team. Both games where Lieber came in to put the fire out, the Cubs won, so it's not like he'll always be coming int to games in non winning situations and just pitching to save the pen. I could see Hart make a couple starts this season.

Please. Like Hill is some proven veteran or something. The blind adulation for Hill and his mediocre season last year, is really pathetic.

It wouldn't make sense for the Angels to take on an albatross of a contract. Vlad would be a nightmare in LF Defensivel but atleast the Cubs wouldn't have such a terrible contract of a painfully average player hanging over them for the next 6 years. I'm tired of Soriano already. He's painful to watch at the plate and doesn't hustle on Defense and has already admitted that he's afraid of the wall and it effects him defensively. Murton would be better for this club because he's cost 16 million dollars less this season and the Cubs could be really aggressive at the trade deadline or the off season and go after a stud pitcher.

The most discouraging thing about Pie looking absolutely cluseless at the plate, is he's doing it against Righties and with the exception of Sheets, I wouldn't call any of these Pitchers he has faced as top tier pitchers in this league. It has only been 4 games but when I see him at the plate, I see a player who still has a long swing and bad plate discipline. That adds up to not good in this league and it might as well be 400 ab's.

This question is a no brainerSoriano.Easily. I wonder if this team would be better with Murton playing everyday than Soriano. Lineup: Fukudome Derosa (hopefully hitting 2ns would cut down on his DP's) Lee Aram Soto Murton Theriot Pie Wonder if the Angels would trade Vlad for Soriano :cry:

It was a typo BB. Edited already.

BJ Upton at 23 years of age has show that he can have success at the ML level. Pie has not. The only comparisons between the two are their age. Sosa wouldn't have been the player he turned out to be in any other era, Wink, Wink.

It certainly is not an overreaction. The problem most Cub fans have is admitting that he's just another in the long line of overhyped and overrated Cub prospects. So they keep making exuses that he's still only 23 years of age or he still only has 175 ab's. The comparison's to Patterson are not fair but the one thing you can compare these 2 together is that Corey Patterson was once 23 years of age and Corey Patterson once only had 175 ab's and Cub fans were saying the exact same thing about him then. Meanwhile they could've traded him while his value was atleast fairly high but they didn't and that didn't turn out too well did it. Then all of you who were saying to give COrey time to develope, rip Hendry for not trading him and getting something back for him while he had some value. Admit it Cub fans and stop making excuses for him, he will never live up to your expectations. He has showed me zero. This isn't the Minor Leagues no more Johnny. He's a bust.

Rich Hill for Kendrick. Next.

I think it's entirely possible he starts the year in Iowa for this reason that I posted in the game thread: I'm a little worried about Hill. The most discouraging thing is that, correct me if I'm wrong, all of his starts have been shorter than he wanted. He hasn't really stretched out his arm yet has he? If his next outing is a short one, that would obstensibly mean he wouldn't have gotten the desired amount of innings you want out of a starter heading into the regular season. Hill has 1 option left, so I'm thinking if he has another short outing (how many times is he scheduled to start?) it's entirely possible that he starts the year out in Iowa to get his arm stronger and the Cubs go to a 4 man rotation early in the year. What is the possiblilty of that

I'm a little worried about Hill. The most discouraging thing is that, correct me if I'm wrong, all of his starts have been shorter than he wanted. He hasn't really stretched out his arm yet has he? If his next outing is a short one, that would obstensibly mean he wouldn't have gotten the desired amount of innings you want out of a starter heading into the regular season. Hill has 1 option left, so I'm thinking if he has another short outing (how many times is he scheduled to start?) it's entirely possible that he starts the year out in Iowa to get his arm stronger and the Cubs go to a 4 man rotation early in the year. What is the possiblilty of that? Good to see Wood get in there today. I'm sure Lou wanted him to sit out another day but I'm guessing Kerry wanted to get out there and just shut everyone up who was overreacting (me).

Today's game is a must win. :lol:

I'm going to make this statement on the quality of Zambrano's pitches and not his final line of a ST game against mostly Minor Leaguers, but that's as good as I've seen Zambrano pitch (well since Game 1 last year) in a long time. Not only was he throwing strikes and his sinker and every pitch had great movement, but did you see Zambrano rocking the Change up!!!!!! He looked great out there and it wouldn't have mattered who he was facing today, they wouldn't have had much of a chance. Very encouraging for the Big man. :good:

Yes that's what I remember reading as well. He'd be out 3-5 days. I hope Patterson tears it up today and makes the decision hard on Lou to not put him on the Opening Day roster.

Today's Lineups (no Fukudome) L.A. of Anaheim of California Willits, CF Aybar, SS Anderson, LF Morales, 1B Mathis, C Wood, 3B Rodriguez, SS Green, P Cubs Patterson, 2B Soriano, LF Lee, 1B Ramirez, 3B Hoffpauir, RF Fontenot, SS Pie, CF Blanco, C Zambrano, P