Clem Fandango

You don't trade pieces of value for a backup catcher. If our backup catcher is a starter on another team then that team will trade accordingly. If only one team wants Castillo then yeah, sure, the Cubs can get lowballed and be stuck with that or nothing. But if more than one team are interested, one of them is going to have to pony up more than the other. Castillo, as a lefty masher at catcher, holds some value. No one is going to give up top prospects or players for Castillo straight up, but packaged with the right players in the right deal and he could be useful in getting something good in return. Also, pitch framing aside, Castillo ranked as one of the top defensive catchers in baseball last year. He's also one year removed from a 3.3 fWAR/4.5rWAR season and has put up 5.5 fWAR/6.3 rWAR the past two seasons. Just because the Cubs aren't interested, doesn't mean no one will want him. Just because that's what we would offer in a 3-team deal does not mean he's the centerpiece in a 3-team deal. Unless I'm interpreting TT wrong, in this example "centered" does not mean he's the centerpiece, just the piece you start and work to build a reasonable package with. Seems pretty obvious that's what he was going for, though I could be wrong. Because you claimed Castillo is replacement level (based solely on pitch framing ability and nothing else) and therefore holds zero value, I used another replacement level player to show you that's not true. Not that difficult to figure it out. Also the defensive metrics that bog down Kemp's overall WAR value are the same ones that show Castillo was the 4th best defensive catcher in the majors last year. His 32.9% of runners caught stealing would be 3rd best in the majors among qualified starters. So really despite a lot of defensive metrics saying Castillo is actually a good defensive catcher, because he's a poor pitch framer you are immediately writing off any value he has whatsoever because you apparently seem to think all 30 teams in baseball value pitch framing the same amount as the Cubs, which isn't true. I don't think he has a ton of value, but I think he's a good complimentary piece in a multi player package.

Thinking he can be a centerpiece in a Zobrist trade is thinking he has a lot of value. But yes, put me down as thinking he has almost no value. His framing wipes out his positives, and I think the market knows that by now. It's not like there's a huge unmet demand for catchers right now anyway. No one is suggesting he's a centerpiece. Cubswin and myself suggested a Castillo and Edwards package, and I can't speak for him, but I didn't suggest it as Castillo being the centerpiece as much as he was a fair and equal companion piece with Edwards to fulfill what Tampa was speculated to want in exchange for Zobrist. TT suggested getting a third team who values Castillo while sending prospects (presumably a mix between us and the third team) to Tampa for Zobrist. I don't think anyone truly thinks Castillo is a centerpiece player in any deal, but more a player who can fulfill a very specific need certain teams might value and, as such, be willing to spend more than he's worth to the Cubs. That's how trades work. If Castillo's pitch framing alone makes him replacement level, then by that logic Matt Kemp should not have yielded Yasmani Grandal. Matt Kemp probably should not have even yielded Welington Castillo with this logic. Yet somehow despite being a replacement level player last year with an abysmal contract, Matt Kemp + $30 million netted the Dodgers Yasmani Gramndal while the Padres got their replacement level player they still owe $75 million to.

It's not that people think he has a lot of trade value, it's that people don't think he has zero value, which is apparently what some on here seem to think just because people put stock into pitch framing. Castillo may not be a good pitch framer, but he hits lefties well at a premium offensive position which makes him a good platoon partner. Whether a team values framing or not, that has value. How much value depends on who is interested in him.

Yeah, that's a really silly stance. The acquisition of Player X to supplant Player Y does not diminish Player Y's trade value just because the team likes Player X better. If another team sees value in adding Player Y they will pony up the proper value to acquire them, especially if there's more than one team interested.

haha liar you changed the charity detail so jerks wouldn't call you out on being mad at that money going to charity I honestly don't remember if it was charity or not. Today, I wanted it to not be charity. Several years ago? I guess it was a charity auction. Clearly my hate has grown stronger, and my quest to turn them into monsters moves forward.

I figured I must have at some point. Worth telling it every couple of years to remind myself how much they suck. It also appears I've gotten the minor details of my own story mixed up over the years. Fact is, no matter the small details, it happened and they suck.

She probably is now

His sister in law was my 2nd grade teacher. She was notorious at my elementary school for being extremely mean. She was, in fact, extremely mean. Every single student got yelled at at some point for something. I think I got yelled at because during reading time I read something that made me laugh and I chuckled underneath my breath. "WHAT'S SO FUNNY, LOGAN!?!?!" Ugh. Brian McRae is also on my [expletive] list forever because of his wife... there was a sports card/memorabilia convention at the local civic center and a silent auction was taking place. I had convinced my father to bid $10 on a Whitey Ford baseball card. No one else had bid on it and I think it was valued at $50 or something. Would've been my most valuable card which was a huge deal for me. Lots of people were there bidding on a whole mess load of items. There's 10 minutes left and what happens? Brian McRae's wife and my 2nd grade teacher saunter in and she just signs her name on everything and overbids on all of it without even checking to see what any of it is. Just signs her name, up and over, sign her name, up and over, sign her name, up and over. Like an [expletive] silent auction robot sent to crush your hopes. So only one person got to take home memorabilia that night, and I lost out on what would've been my most valuable card and the crown jewel of my budding collection (I was 10 at the time), because Brian McRae's wife took his money and just bought [expletive] she probably didn't even know the value of just because she could. Wasn't even a charity auction so it wasn't like she was doing it for a good cause, she just decided to take it all. So [expletive] Brian McRae and [expletive] his wife and [expletive] his sister in law. They all suck and were shitty parts of my childhood.

This is a really good Photoshop. http://i.imgur.com/pI6TWfo.jpg

He's still only 23, but he hasn't exactly lived up to the lofty expectations he put upon himself after 2011, plus he was injured for nearly 2 years before coming back this season and putting up bad numbers. I would've definitely been interested in him as a reclamation project given his age, but it's not too surprising the Yankees were willing to move him for a player who helps them this year.

And I wouldn't trade any of those people for Byrd, so... lol Reds

Hahahhaha holy [expletive] Never heard of Lively before, but judging by his numbers would this be like us trading C.J. Edwards for Byrd?

His asking price is rumored to be more than what Colby rasmus is rumored to want.

Maddon will turn him into a bowl rainbow sunshine cupcakes.

DO IT THEO

Good picture of Kris Bryant doing what Kris Bryant isn't the best at.

Ha! Well done.

Castillo & Edwards? Not enough?

Whatever. It's 2 or 3 clicks no matter which way you slice it.

Bingo

That's some Maddux [expletive] right there

I really like his ability to be bad at baseball

Most of the active topics are football or basketball related and I personally don't watch either, so I don't browse by active topics, I browse the forums I read by viewing which one has a "New Messages" icon next to it. huh? those are like, what, 5 threads? still much easier than checking all the baseball sub forums for new posts. Point is I don't want to wade through all that and some social posts when I habitually check and read each forum for new posts all day as they arrive. It's more difficult to find all the new posts I care about using the active topics route.

Most of the active topics are football or basketball related and I personally don't watch either, so I don't browse by active topics, I browse the forums I read by viewing which one has a "New Messages" icon next to it.