RynoHawk23

Does anyone want to comment on the fact that the hold up in the Roberts trade could be the inclusion of Jose Ceda!?!? I have to be honest, I've heard of him, know the Cubs are high on him, but I do not know his potential. 3 years in and never pitched above A ball? And he's untouchable?!?! I guess I feel like if they want Gallagher, Ceda and Murton - isn't this a no brainer 'yes'? Someone fill me in.

Dex & Wrigley, deep breaths please. First remember, you guys are on the same side. You are both Cubs fans. Secondly there are valid points on both sides, so don't belittle each other to get your points across. You are both not completely right or wrong. This is not Hannity and Combs - thank god. And this is a message board, stating your opinion is the point, no matter how many times. And its almost ridiculous to even be arguing that point in this thread that has so much garbage. At least you two are arguing about the topic to some degree. Brian Roberts is a top of the order force. I think both of you would agree on that point. Soriano is a force, but does have a tendency to need comfort - a la struggling when playing in center and blossoming once back in left field. So there probably is something to the point that he needs to be in the lead off spot because he has accelled in that spot and has a confidence level there. Brian Roberts would be a solid choice to bat second because he would still be at the top of the lineup and solve our "right handedness" issues as well - while still having the versatility of switch hitting. However, it would be interesting to see Roberts and Fukudome at the top with a murderer's row of Lee, Ramirez and Soriano behind them. I like to see the statistics and everything, but you have to incorporate common sense as well. Its not a made up thing that Lou has hinted at dropping Soriano down if Roberts came aboard. So maybe its not the right move in your mind Dexter, but it is the possible move that will happen. If it doesn't work then I'm sure a reshuffling would happen - Lou is not adverse to doing that. I think if Roberts comes aboard, finding a spot for him to hit is going to be a great problem to have, and not a detriment to the team. I don't think we can have enough great players.

Jose Uribe is available. Not great but not the worst. Alex Cintron has about a 99.9% chance of being a Cub - classic Hendry move. Neifi Perez should be available by the all-star break after his 50 game suspension. :)

I agree, Peace seems more reliable than BigBird. So I would tend to be encouraged by him saying a deal is likely and Roberts has a 100% chance of being traded. Still is not a guarantee but I am encouraged.

This is from Bigbird this afternoon. Somewhat contradicting the Olney report in front office moods. Trade overall seems believable. Would solve their problems of needing a top prospect and MI help. Solves our need for top of lineup help and a fall back plan if Pie doesn't cut it. I think its a decent deal. We are probably giving up too much, but we would control Roberts for 2 years at a decent cost. Just thought I'd pass along the rumor.

Insider "Peace" at OH, speculating that the Bedard trade hold up could be because of the Orioles trading both Roberts and Bedard at the same time. Roberts to the Cubs, that is. Not both to Seattle. Grain of salt. Just thought I'd throw in some actual Brian Roberts talk into the thread for fun.

Minnesota has very little experience in their rotation and only 4 starters right now. They have Pat Neshek in the wings. They aren't going to resign Nathan, so I would think a trade that actually helps them this year would be realistic for them. I could see Dempster, Wuertz (?) and a average prospect for Nathan. Helps both teams and offsets the money issues. Of course after the Santana debacle, they might be wiser to keep Nathan until the deadline. But I think our surplus matches their needs.

The reason the Mariners are giving up more talent to get Bedard is because he is controllable for two years in arbitration. The Mets are paying dearly in a different way - money. They essentially have depleted their farm system and now are going to pony up around $120-150 million. The Twins over played their hand and got screwed. Should have taken a Phil Hughes deal or an Ellsbury deal.

I heard it. He said it like he wants to make 2 more trades, but if they don't happen they don't happen. North immediately after the interview said he say "he knows" the Orioles want Colvin & Pie for Bedard.

This is awful to mediocre at best. I don't get it.

That roster of starting pitchers has already proven to be "not enough." At least not in the playoffs. You have to hope Hill and Marshall mature, but also worry about Lilly being able to repeat his '07 output - that he hadn't ever reached before. At this point Lilly had a career year. I'd like to see what it would actually take to pull Bedard & Roberts. Marshall, Gallagher, Cedeno, Pie, and Colvin? To a lot of people on this board, this would be organizational suicide, but Bedard and Roberts are controllable for 2 years, you sign Lofton/Shannon Stewart to patrol CF. Zambrano, Bedard, Lilly, Hill, Marquis Pen: Dempster, Marmol, Howry, Wood, Eyre, Wuertz, and a LH body Roberts, Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, DeRosa, Soto, Lofton/Stewart Bench: Theriot, Murton, Ward, Fontenot, Blanco NL Champs. Consensus is probably stupidest idea ever. :D Tell me that's not salty though.

Lou has always said that this was his last job. I don't think he's said that its 3 and done. Conceivably he could be here as long as the Cubs are winning and he wants to manage. If he somehow won a WS with the Cubs, I would imagine he would then retire and put the exclamation point on a hall of fame career. I think the reporter has read into his previous comments and Listach went along with the questioning or is hoping to time his chance to manage the Cubs in two years by managing in Iowa for 2 years.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-080112philrogerswhispers,1,6118227.story?coll=cs-home-headlines Deal doesn't sound "dead" in the sense Roberts is "off the market." The real test is if Bedard gets traded. Then you would think there is no point to holding onto Roberts.

Keener, you make valid points. But he had many a big game where he lost total control - Mike Cameron, throwing cookies to pitchers or even walking them (cant remember the exact games, maybe someone can help me - sorry, I'm old), and Arizona. I'm not really trying to discredit Hill, I've been swept up in this debate. Basically I think we need a #2 pitcher or at the very least - another pitcher that is just as good as Lilly to create more playoff depth for this team. Therefore, making Hill our #4 and creating a matchup advantage for the Cubs.

Yes because baseball is played by computers and not humans.

Boston - 5th NYY - 4th Tigers - 4th Cleveland - 3rd Anaheim - 3rd or 4th Arizona - 4th Brewers - 3rd Weird how my teams are the playoff/WS series contenders and your's are the crap teams of the national league or AL teams with no chance. Rich Hill can be great. I hope he is great. But if you want to win the World Series, you need more and better pitchers than Rich Hill. As for arguing his mental state - its a real thing if you've seen him pitch.

"Lilly or Hill would be #1's on a lot of staffs around baseball." - Tomy 23 That's who is arguing that point and said I lost all credibility by saying that Hill might be a #1 on the Nationals - and that's pushing it. So i asked which teams he would be the #1 pitcher and anchor of the staff. Fair question. Prove me wrong.

Nothin quite like comparing pitchers in two completely different leagues.

Tell me which teams he would legitamitely be a the #1 starter and anchor of a staff.

He hit 12 hr's last year compared to Byrd's 10. As an insurance policy, I think he's worth a shot.

You guys are right. Regular season numbers don't translate all of the time - good or bad. And 5 game series are crap shoots. I agree. But! If I had to take my chances I would choose Sabathia and Carmona everytime over Z/Lilly. That's me though. I guess I gravitate towards the hard throwing guys. And to correct myself, Lilly wasn't "hittable" in the sense that he gets rocked around. That's not what I meant to imply. He had a great WHIP because he didn't walk guys - so the larger portion of his whip is getting hit around. Which in the playoffs, when he's facing solid lineups he's going to be weakened. Especially if he's off - like we saw in the playoff game - then his pitches are even more hittable. He had his best statistical season last year - right? But before last year, most would agree that he was a #3 pitcher at best. The guy had never had a winning season right? But overall, don't get me wrong, Lilly is a great player and a pitcher we need on this team. As for Hill, you can spit all of the stats at me that you want - I know what I see watching him pitch. He's a head case. He pouts when he gets hit. He loses composure. He crumbles under pressure. He is NOT a big game pitcher. He can be great, but at this point, the only team that he might be a #1 on would be the Nationals who have a joke of a pitching staff. I think I am severly off the topic of Brian Roberts.

If Roberts is not going to happen, and we immediately drop to Marlon Byrd (please God, no). Why would we not take a look at signing Shannon Stewart. Who we tried to get last year. Now we wouldn't have to give anything up, and he offers real insurance if Pie doesn't pan out. The only downsides I see are his injury history and lifetime AL player. I do see he was offered arbitration - so that costs us draft picks, right? Thoughts? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3348

Did you watch the rest of the season? Lilly was great, but very hittable. Hill is a head case and very inconsistent from start to start. Marquis had his moments but largely unreliable. Marshall has potential but didn't come up big in pressure situations, thus being untrustworthy by Lou. I know we had the best starters during the regular season, but you can hide marginal starters during the course of a full season because of matchups. The Playoffs are a different animal, the matchups - for the most part - is your best guy vs their best guy and on down. Please remember we had the best starters in the National League, by far right now the weaker division. I'm talking in terms of winning a championship. If you are content with winning a subpar division and possibly lucking out in a 5 game series and then losing in the NLCS, then yes, we can take our chances with the team we have. I'd like to compete with Boston, NYY, Tigers, and Cleveland.

Sorry to harp on the #1a/#2 starter. Did you actually watch Lilly and Hill pitch against Arizona? ARIZONA! I can't even imagine what Boston's lineup would have done to them. Hell the Rockies would have crushed them. Plus, who would have pitched a game 4? Marquis?!? The reason we were 5 outs away from a World Series, were Kerry Wood & Mark Prior - two #1's. That allowed for Zambrano to be a #3 and Clement to be a #4. The only team (of recent history - 2000's) that I can think of that didn't have top 2 starters and win a World Series, was St. Louis. I guess its what I've seen that is tried and true. Pitching wins. But, you need a lineup that can beat the other guys pitching. I thought Roberts would be the right move for us. Allows Lou to use DeRosa/Theriot at SS/MI. Bench is deeper. More versatility. More speed. All star caliber player. Allows for real consideration to move Soriano down in the lineup. Just very disappointing. But I realize we need more pitching than hitting.

The point being that there is no measurable gain from Fukudome and Jones/Floyd. Maybe defense, but that's not what I'm talking about. Well if Levine didn't completely shut the door, then I'll step back from the ledge a little. So, you're telling me there's a chance.