Little Slide Rooter

hoilman sounds like a Pena/Dunn type to me. Has the power, has the patience, but like most hitters of that mold, the strikeouts come with the territory.

Other teams have more prospects. Trading for Jimenez would be more of a challenge than signing Wilson, I think. Agreed. I much prefer the idea of trying to sign Wilson instead of trading Jimenez. I was just countering WSR's apparent conclusion that the Cubs have a better chance of getting Jiminez via trade as opposed to signing Wilson. But there are more teams willing to part with money than wiling to put together the kind of prospect package that it would take to acquire a front end starter, so if Jimenez became available, I think there would e fewer teams in that hunt than for Wilson.

My only real point is that in addition to offense, we need another front of the rotation pitcher. Wilson is the only one our there in my opinion who qualifies as front end unless CC hits the market. If we miss out there, we need to trade for someone, and if Jimenez is out there, we should go for him. However, even if we missed out on both, and ended up with Jackson or Kuroda, as well as Fielder and resigning Ramirez, we could still very much contend. As Hendry said last year, this team is 3 moves away from contending. well, there they are.

You heard the guy. We won't be contending for 5 years so who cares how much ass he kicks.

This is true. Other teams have money too though. The Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, and Angels are all teams that will likely show interest, as well as the Orioles and Nationals who are always desperate for pitching. Also, he could simply resign with the Rangers.

Jimenez has been worth 8.8 WAR the past two seasons (6.3 and 2.5) while Wilson has been worth 8.2 (4.4 and 3.8). Is the difference between those two and between Flaherty/Baker and Aramis worth going from Brett Jackson in center to a Reed/Colvin platoon in right next year with Byrd in center? And then having to go out and spend on a 6th (maybe 5th) starter to replace McNutt? And then having to spend more FA money on the rotation and right field in two years? It'd make us better next year, but I think it would hurt us in the mid-term (2-4 years) because our best, closest prospects would be gone and we'd have to supplement with FAs until some of the lower minors guys were ready. If we could give some guys further from the majors, I'd be more open to it. Even still, Wilson's got less mileage and I think we'd be better overall with Wilson/Jackson/McNutt/Szczur/Flaherty/Baker than Ubaldo/Aramis/Reed/Colvin. I'm not saying that Ubaldo is that much better of an option than Wilson, or even a better option than Wilson. I'm saying that it isn't as simple as just going out and signing Wilson. Starting pitching is always in demand in the offseason, and Wilson is by far the best available option in the 2012 FA class, ad after him, it's a pretty sharp dip to Edwin Jackson or Hiroki Kuroda If we did trade for Jimenez, yeah, we'd pay a hefty price, but we'd have that extra front end starter that we need as opposed to throw our name in the hat for Wilson and hope for the best.

So could it be time to give Jay Jackson a look see in the pen?

I'd rather sign Wilson than give up that much for Ubaldo. Wilson will be a very popular guy this offseason, so theres no guarrantee we get him. Unless Sabathia hits the market, no other FA starter comes close. As far as money goes, it would make him cheaper than Wilson would be, allowing us to use all our FA dollars on Ramirez and Fielder. Depending how fruitful this draft ends up as far as signing overslots, Id be willing to sign with some key pieces to contend next year and beyond.

I wonder if theres any chance that The Cubs would go after Ubaldo. The Rockies have some high demands, but maybe we could swing it. Its not often where a non contender makes a buy move, but not only is he under control through 2012, but he has very reasonable team options for '13 at 6 mil and '14 at 8 mil. What do you think it would take to get him? Something similar to the Garza package would have to be the starting point, say McNutt, Jackson or Szczur and 2 other quality pieces and throw in a AAAAer to sweeten the deal.

But wait, didnt we get Josh Hamilton after the Rays lost patience with him?

Still wouldnt be smart to trade him unless they get top value. yeah Holliday will have LF for the next 5 years or whatever, and even if they are set on Jay in CF, what happens with RF? I cant imagine Berkman signing another 1 year deal, and if the do find a way to resign Pujols and Wainwright, they certainly wont be able to sign him.

The White Sox sent the D Backs Chris Carter for Quentin. Carters whose still considered a top 100 prospect. He was later sent to Oakland as a big piece of the trade for Dan Haren. Obviously, CarGo was the biggest piece.

no way we get anything of value for him. We should get a better value than we did for DLee last year. It depends on the market. Granted, Carlos Pena is a better player now than Lee was then, but if Atlanta was in more need of a 1B than any of the team who are currently in the market are, then we might not get as good of a return for Pena.

So what to do about Marlon Byrd? Since 2007, he's hitting .295/.350/.452/.802. He stands to make 6.5 mil in 2012. Sounds like a very good value to me. While I dont change my stance I had earlier in the year that no team with Marlon Byrd hitting 3rd will win a World Series or even a division, a team with Marlon Byrd hitting 5th or 6th very well could. On one hand, he could be a very good trade chip if we don't mind Jackson in center and Colvin/Reed Johnson/cheap free agent in right. We could get a team to pick up all of his remaining salary a lot easier than any of Sorianos. On the other hand, he could be a valuable piece next year if the make the necessary moves to compete next year. Thoughts?

As far as the lefties go, the answer is simple. Make Grabow go away, call up Gaub or Maine and send Beliveau to AAA. Maybe even leapfrog Beliveau straight to Chicago. And Im not sure why you brought up the possibility of demoting Carpenter. He never should have been sent back down to begin with.

Fixed.

Nothing quite like having your own personal grammar police because lord knows the I pad autocorrect sucks.

Don't forget the Cards. If they can somehow retain Pujols and Wainwright, and Miller and Martinez pan out, they'll be very tough, especially if they keep Rasmus and he hits his full potential.

I can't imagine that the Cards would send him to us anyway, but if they are serious about moving him, I can guarantee that theyll get better offers than a rent a pitcher, a decent left handed reliever whose not as good as ours, and a few pieces from one of the worst farm systems in baseball. I suspect if the Sox want Rasmus they'll need to start with Gordon Beckham and/or Chris Sale.

How old are you? Sosa too long ago? childhood - sandberg/maddux teenage - Sosa Adult - Aramis (IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PRIOR, DUSTY, YOU [expletive]) Next 15+ years-Castro

It depends on the plans for next year. If they plan on spending the necessary money to get right back into contention, then Marshall is a huge part of the team. If not, and they just plan on letting Aramis walk, trade what they can, and pick up a few dime store free agents, than I think that if we could get at least a top 25-50 prospect for him, then it would be foolish not to, and by the time they are ready to compete again, Marshalls likely gone anyway.

Solid outing for Wells if nothing else.

Chris Young would have to go in the low risk/decent reward pile.

My biggest concern with scenario 1 is that (and I probably should have mentioned this in my original post) Cashner would be in the rotation in either scenario. As much as I like Cashner, we need to have some depth prepared behind him. Going with Wells, a hail mary like Sheets or Kazmir, or a rookie like McNutt would give us the potential for two holes in the rotation and no depth, whereas scenario 2 would give us only the potential for one hole in the rotation and we'd have McNutt and maybe Whitenack (depending on his rehab) as depth behind Cashner. Looking at the '12 FA list, there are some decent guys between Wilson and whatever we can call up or more veteran junkballers like Bush, Lopez, and Ortiz. Kyle Davis, Jeff Francis, and Joel Pinearo are a few guys that would not be nearly as good as Wilson or even Edwin Jackson, but they should be cheaper and probably wouldnt be the disasters weve cycled through this year. Theyd probably be more 4 starters than 2-3 starters, but if we can get good production out of Garza, Demp, and Z, a 4 starter could work for us, and hope for the best out of Cashner, Wells, McNutt or whoever inhabits the 5 spot.

I think I might be inclined to go with scenerio 1, but Id still like to see them go after a low risk/high reward pitcher like Sheets or Kazmir, and theres always the hope that McNutt can step in. Maybe even Jay Jackson, but hope is dwindling there.