Backtobanks

I have trouble believing that the Rockies would give up Gray and Estevez in the same deal. I'm sure they could get better offers from other teams by doing separate trades if they decided they could give up both pitchers.

The contract situation is nice but he's put up 4.7 rWAR in 78 starts with the Cubs. The only real certainty for a WS contender, and since he's a pitcher it's not like the most certain certainty, is that he'll throw alot of innings. Personally I'm willing to trade some of that certainty on the pitching staff (Darvish, Hendricks, Lester aren't major 2020 injury risks on paper) for depth and possibly higher upside pickups, especially if in a roundabout way it improves the position group offense and defense I still think all of this trade talk (Contreras, Quintana, Schwarber, Bryant, etc.) had better bring back immediate help for 2020-2021 and not just prospects with upsides.

I don't understand the discussion about trading Quintana since it would be opening another hole to fill. We already need one SP and time seems to be catching up with Lester, so we don't need more uncertainty in the rotation. I still believe we need to market Chatwood as a SP to those teams that are looking for rotation help.

Any talk of the Cubs trading Contreras and paying Grandal what he wanted was only in the minds of some posters. With limited funds and many holes to fill, adding to a position of power wasn't going to happen. I'm with you on the limited funds thing, but diverging on the second point because the catcher position without Contreras is definitely not a position of power. As per all of the related discussion, Caratini plus a cheaper veteran FA catcher is still a solid choice.

Any talk of the Cubs trading Contreras and paying Grandal what he wanted was only in the minds of some posters. With limited funds and many holes to fill, adding to a position of power wasn't going to happen.

I get the Astros reference, but if they go back to a "regular" ball, there might be a bunch of hitters falling off a cliff next year.

Yup, that’s no money. Non-tendering Russell and Almora basically makes it a net even (or even saves us some) money on the AAV. His profile, on the surface, seems like a great fit and the CF market is non-existent. The only issue I have with him, as I’ve mentioned before is he’s a LHH so finding a RHH who can handle CF is still a need but maybe we can lower the bar to a Pillar type if he’s non-tendered or a Lagares, Broxton, Maybin type on a cheap deal. Margot would still be a great add with Akiyama if he’s reasonably available. I mentioned earlier that Maybin would be a good pickup no matter what we end up doing with CF. I think he would be a veteran bat off the bench and could fill in anywhere in the OF.

His stats show he hits better and with more power at Petco. Home - .245/.313/.400/.713 Away - .251/.290/.388/.678

Pros: he's a CF, he's young, he's cheap and controlled. Cons: he's not very good.

I doubt the Cubs would be as slow to give up Happ, Hoerner, and/or Alzolay/Marquez just sayin' Indians! Why don't we cut out the middle man and trade Happ, Horner, and Alzolay/Marquez for Verdugo, Lux, and May? :good:

Boy, I sure hope the Cubs don't hire any of those dirty cheaters who are really good at cheating. No sir! I wish we cheated more, there’s clearly little to no repercussions. It really wouldn’t shock me if we don’t attempt to do anything other than the “traditional” or “acceptable” in game stuff (like runner on 2B, picking up on pitch tipping, etc.). Since I’m under that presumption I’m going to bastardized any form of cheating by these immoral teams. Well, we did play .630 ball at home. :-k

I'm sticking with my original suggestion: Trade Contreras, Almora, Short, and Underwood to Pittsburgh for Marte, Frazier, and Kela. Trade Chatwood and Bote to Texas for Leclerc and Mazara. Extend Quintana and sign a catcher (?), Maybin, Odorizzi, Liriano. Fills all the holes and stays under the luxury tax.

I’m all for getting rid of Russell but I hate Villar, he might suck. Plus he’s expensive. He made $1.4 million more than Russell this year. He will probably get a decent raise next year where Russell probably won't though.

From MLBTR: The Baltimore Orioles primary goal for the near-term remains adding as much talent to the organization as possible, primarily in the minor leagues. That said, GM Mike Elias does have a winter checklist in this, his first full offseason as GM (the Orioles hired him on November 16th of last year). Namely, the Orioles will be looking for pitching and a veteran shortstop, per MASNSports’ Roch Kubatko. How about Russell plus a prospect (or 2) for Villar?

Oh true, if Estevez then go ahead and throw them a MiLer. I suspect full season pitching are the goners these days so the Millers, Thompsons, Sanders, Pattersons, etc...whoever got press during the season basically So a team that gave up 958 runs is going to trade their best starter and their best reliever for another hitter?

If that's true, it makes even more sense to trade a guy with 2 years of control left for one with 3, right? It would make more sense to trade Gray to a team willing to trade multiple top prospects with lots of years of control left.

I'm not sure the Rockies would make that trade. There's going to be a lot of competition for Gray alone without throwing Estevez into the deal. Gray only has 2 years of control left vs 3 for Willy. Gray seems to have fallen out of some favor there plus the trade saves them some money (something they’re trying to do apparently). Estevez is like 4th or 5th in the pecking order for their bullpen arms, he should be attainable. The Rockies desperately need some bats, they only had 5 players provide positive offensive WAR last year, Wes Pearson (a pitcher) was their 6th most valuable offensive WAR player. Yonder Alonso had the 6th highest wRC+ for them, 2 of their top 11 players by wRC+ were pitchers, we think we have depth problems but they’re on another level. With the money committed to Blackmon and Arenado they can’t really just bottom out and I’d assume they’ll keep trying to win, Contreras makes a lot of sense for them to add. Their catchers were 28th in MLB in WAR (-1.7), they combined to hit .239/.316/.349 with 9 Dongs and a 59 wRC+. While I agree that Contreras makes sense for the Rockies (and almost any other team), I don't think the Rockies will be trying to contend next year. From MLBTR: Colorado owns one of the majors’ least impressive farm systems (per Baseball America), and dealing Gray could help the franchise improve its class of pre-MLB talent. Moreover, the Rockies doesn’t appear likely to contend in 2020.

If you can pull off Gray and Estevez for Contreras and no other MLB/top prospect assets, you have a lot of flexibility to imprvoe without needing 17 trades. Grandal + Shogo, Castro + Castellanos, etc Yeah it really opens up a lot. You solidify the rotation (plus fill a spot for next year) and add a solid RP without it costing money. Then the money can be used in a variety of ways like you laid out. Grandal, Moustakas (move KB to RF), bring back Nick, Didi, maybe be able to take on a guy like Lowrie, could open up potentially being able to move Q to save some money to go do something bigger (basically Gray takes Qs spot and Mills/Chatwood/Rea/etc take the 5 spot), etc. I'm not sure the Rockies would make that trade. There's going to be a lot of competition for Gray alone without throwing Estevez into the deal.

Our offseason would be so much easier if we could count on Happ to be a semi-solid option in CF for the whole season, but I'm not sure we can count on him and still be serious contenders.

One that I think your missing is trading Chatwood. He had a great season last year, but there are a lot of teams that need SP and wouldn't mind the $13 million salary. I don't see the Cubs in on Grandal (even with a a Willson trade) because of the cost. The Cubs don't have the money to blow it all on one player, especially when we already have strength at C. Trading Q doesn't make too much sense because it adds one more hole to fill. You're right about #4 - nobody is taking on that contract. As for #3 and #5, I don't think we can get equal value back.

MLBTR prediction on Shogo Akiyama - Diamondbacks 2 years/$6 million "A win-now team with ample money to spend probably wouldn’t take on this level of uncertainty, but a team like the Diamondbacks, Rangers, Indians, White Sox or Mariners could view Akiyama as an upside play and take the modest risk." I guess they don't realize we have a black hole in CF since we didn't get mentioned. Even PTR might jump at that contract.

Are you looking for the Cubs to corner the market on #5’s? Seems like they have enough. They can't afford a #1-4 and don't have a #5 sure thing right now.

Danny Salazar and Julio Teheran have been added to the FA market. If the money is right, either could be a #5 starter.

Because most were on board to paying that kind of contract to Harper/Machado. So what? None of that has anything to do with Rizzo. There's no evidence that Rizzo won't be a productive player at 32 - 33 years old, so I don't understand why some posters wouldn't want to extend him. The point was that some people thought he wouldn't be worth the money and yet they were willing to throw twice as much to pay Machado/Harper at 36 or 37 years old.

I totally agree. Rizzo at 32 or 33 making $14 or $15 million per year will be better than paying Harper or Machado $26-$30 million when they're 37 or 38 yrs old. What does the former have to do with the latter. Because most were on board to paying that kind of contract to Harper/Machado.