Backtobanks

How about going after Eduardo Perez of the Indians. The Indians have been a disappointment this year and can use some young pitching. Perez hits lefties very well and would be a good platoon for RF after Lee returns. What do you think?

Question for all: Do we overvalue Cedeno and Murton? Cedeno is currently ranked 15th among shortstops in VORP, so he's middle of the pack offensively, and he's slumping right now, so he could drop into the bottom third. Defensively, his range is great, but his throwing accuracy has been a problem. He's ranked as very below average defensively by Clay Davenport's fielding metric. As the season progresses, I expect him to get past the wildness, but it may not happen. His OBP has been extremely average-driven. He's in the bottom 9 in all of MLB in pitches per plate appearance, joining notorious free-swingers like Vlad Guerrero and Jeff Francoeur. PECOTA projects Ronny to be worth about 3 wins above a replacement player this year. That looks good to Cubs fans because it's better than Neifi Perez, but it's not that great, either. And PECOTA doesn't see him improving much if at all over the next 5 years. Murton has been a slightly below average fielder in left (his awkward fielding makes him look worse than he actually is). His OBP is great, but his slugging isn't what you want from a corner outfielder. He is among the league leaders in ground balls (last I heard, he was right behind Juan Pierre). Like Cedeno, Cubs fans support Murton because he's so much better than what we saw in LF for much of last year. If Murton can keep his OBP up, he might make a good leadoff hitter, but if he's a starter, the Cubs would need to pick up some power at a position in which power is not normally expected (SS, 2B, CF, etc). I don't understand why people would get on Cedeno or Murton at this point. Basically they are rookies and still learning their way around the league. At the same time, whenever I suggest trading Hill or Guzman, people emphasize that they are rookies and show great potential. I think Cedeno and Murton can be solid major league players for many years, but they aren't immune to slumps.

I would say the Cubs have to play at least .550 ball when everybody comes for me to be okay with an extention. Playing .500 isn't good enough. I would think that when Prior, Wood, Miller, and Lee come back, the Cubs need to play .700 ball for at least a month for Hendry to offer him an extension. After all, the return of those players eliminates all of Baker's excuses.

Can you get your own coffee?

I'm not quite sure what Wood and Miller are going to get you since they've been DLed all season. Obviously they need to pitch and show that they're healthy before anyone is going to take them. I really think Wood's trade value is so low that we would be better off keeping him and making a decision late in the season.

I agree that the team has quit. This reminds me of the last place Cubs in the 50's & 60's that gave up when they fell behind by a run. Watching this team, they know something bad is going to happen and when it does they collapse. Hendry has to do something like make a trade or fire the manager to shake up the team. I believe Hendry when he says that he has been trying to make a deal, but the asking price has been ridiculous because of the desperate situation the Cubs are in. That leaves the second option......fire the manager.

Are you saying that some teams actually call up the player that is hitting better. Shocking!!!!

A perfect example is Kenny Williams. 3 years ago he was the village idiot and now he's considered one of the best GMs.

And yet idiotic pitchers and managers continue to walk him. :roll: But those same idiotic pitchers and managers are still pitching to Pujols.

Obviously, the perfect solution is to have competence at both manager and GM. I have heard many complaints about Hendry, but I still think Baker is a much bigger problem than Hendry. In the last few years, look at the misuse of the personnel. Hawkins closing, Remlinger used against lefties, Neifi being put in the 2nd spot in the lineup and being the first bat off of the bench when he wasn't playing, Patterson leading off, the mishandling of the pitching staff, etc. From the start, Hendry has pushed for Dempster being the closer, more playing time for the kids, etc. Hendry's biggest faults are overpaying 2nd line players and his hands-off approach to Baker's decisions with personnel (including coaches). As many people have stated, Baker is a great guy and loyal to his players and coaches, but he doesn't make great decisions on the field or with his personnel.

Bring up another kid to instill some spirit to the team by sitting on the bench next to Theriot.

I'm still waiting to see why we want to hold on to Guzman and Hill. The way they are pitching will ruin whatever trade value they had. I agree that they both have some potential, but unless the Cubs start scoring some runs the season will be a total disaster. The Cubs need to deal from their strength (young starting pitchers) and as long as they insist on a superstar in exchange for one of these two, they Cubs will continue to lose. I would start asking around as to who might be available if Guzman or Hill is part of the trade package.

After watching today's game, I don't see how anyone can deny Baker needs to be fired. This team was totally unprepared for the game and that's the manager's job. Why weren't they running on Piazza? Baker talks about shaking up the lineup and puts Neifi at 2B while Theriot sits. After Cedeno's mistakes today, I would expect Neifi to be at SS tomorrow (even though Neifi made an error on a bonehead play too).

I strongly DISAGREE with your comments about Guzman. You do understand that he has only had 3 starts at the major league level? Yup...just 3. In all 3 starts, he showed excellent stuff, but a lack of command. Since he has been known for his command throughout his minor league career, most observers feel his command will return shortly...that it is shaky due to the fact he hasn't pitched many innings since recovering from surgery. Guzman's first 3 starts were roughly the same as Marshall's first three starts. What if Marshall had been written off after his first 3 starts? Don't believe me: Marshall Start 1: 4.1 IP, 4 Hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's Start 2: 5 IP, 5 hits, 4 ER, 1 BB, 2 k's Start 3: 5 IP, 2 hits, 2 ER, 3 BB, 4 k's TOTAL: 14.1 IP, 11 hits, 10 ER, 5 BB, 8 k's Guzman Start 1: 5 IP, 6 hits, 3 ER, 4 BB, 5 k's Start 2: 5.2 IP, 6 hits, 4 ER, 3 BB, 7 k's Start 3: 4.1 IP, 5 hits, 5 ER, 4 BB, 4 k's TOTAL: 15 IP, 15 hits, 12 ER, 11 BB, 16 k's So Guzman allowed 2 more ER, while going deeper into games. And at least 2 of those runs scored AFTER he left the game. He struck out twice the number of batters as Sean (good stuff!), totally more than a k an inning, but he also walked twice the number of batters (shaky control). Once Guz finds more consistant control (which will come with more innings pitched), he is going to be VERY good. I love the fact that the Cubs seem to be stocking up on young pitchers with potential. The problem is that if the Cubs are going to start solving their offensive problems and their lack of good young position players they are going to have to trade some of the young pitching. It doesn't do much good if you have 6-7 major league starters and you can't score more than one run a game.

The part that I bolded and underlined shows the difference between many of us and Hendry. You stated we couldn't get a top-tier prospect, but someone along the lines of Cedeno or Hill. During the spring, Hendry put Hill on an "untouchable" list and the Cubs act like he's the second coming of Sandy Koufax whereas we see Hill as a prospect with potential.

If the Tribune had a sense of humor, they would have put "Cubs Win" in gigantic type on the front page this morning.

The Cubs seem to be stocked with young pitching. I would trade Hill or Guzman in a second if it would bring us a solid major league bat. I never understood how Hill became an "untouchable". Pie, I would try to hold onto unless we're talking someone like Cabrera.

why do the cubs hit bad, soft throwing lefties? ....never mind Actually, I'm surprized he didn't stick around through the Cub series. If he had pitched, he might have revived his career.

The Mets would make that deal as soon as the Cards trade Pujols for Maddux and Neifi.

Source? I've been pushing for a trade to get Wilson since Lee went down. Wilson fits perfectly for the Cubs (right-handed 1B, RF, power pinch hitter). Let's hope it's Hill and Bynum.

The problem is if you bring up minor leaguers who aren't ready, what are they going to show you? They're going to look overwhelmed at the plate and on the mound. How are you going to decide who can produce at a consistent level for 2007, if they come up and stink. Kaspar and Brenley were talking about the fact that Guzman will be a good major league pitcher. I haven't seen anything yet that suggests that. I disagree with that last statement. Guz clearly has plus-stuff, but he isn't comfortable being in The Show. Is there any guarantee that he will ever be comfortable being in The Show. Juan Cruz had plus-stuff, Rich Hill has plus-stuff, Guzman has plus-stuff, as do many AA and AAA pitchers, but all that means is they have the potential to be a good major league pitcher. Personally, I would like the Cubs to put some of these players in a package for Craig Wilson (even if it means overpaying). Neither Guzman nor Hill have pitched enough to make any claims about their ability to pitch in "the show". Trading either one for the likes of Craig Wilson would be beyond stu[/b]pid.[/quote] I don't understand why trading Guzman or Hill for Craig Wilson would be stupid. The Cubs need a right-handed power-hitting 1B who can also play RF and hit with power off of the bench. That sounds exactly like Craig Wilson to me. Guzman or Hill might be overpaying, but they might end up being AAAA pitchers too.

The problem is if you bring up minor leaguers who aren't ready, what are they going to show you? They're going to look overwhelmed at the plate and on the mound. How are you going to decide who can produce at a consistent level for 2007, if they come up and stink. Kaspar and Brenley were talking about the fact that Guzman will be a good major league pitcher. I haven't seen anything yet that suggests that. I disagree with that last statement. Guz clearly has plus-stuff, but he isn't comfortable being in The Show. Is there any guarantee that he will ever be comfortable being in The Show. Juan Cruz had plus-stuff, Rich Hill has plus-stuff, Guzman has plus-stuff, as do many AA and AAA pitchers, but all that means is they have the potential to be a good major league pitcher. Personally, I would like the Cubs to put some of these players in a package for Craig Wilson (even if it means overpaying).

Obviously, Baker can still use the injuries as an excuse. Assuming Baker is still the manager when Wood, Prior, Miller, and Lee return, he better get the team moving at about a .700 clip for a month or else he could be in trouble. There's no more excuses after those guys return.

That when Wood returns he will bat 4th. Although 6th, 7th, or 8th remain a possibility.

Yeah, like any of those 3 deals would happen.