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They could have gone down 1-2-3. That would have been a lot worse.

He'd only have to pass through 1 team (Pittsburgh) and since Hendry and the Pittsburgh G.M. are friends, my guess is that Pittsburgh wouldn't claim him.

while we do have problems against lefties.... 1. we face way more righties Seems like we're facing way more lefties lately though. There must be more lefty starters in the NL in general now because I don't remember facing this many. The Cubs have actually faced a really small amount of left-handed starters this year. They have only had 28 out of 111, which is small. This week has been really bad for them though in terms of facing left-handers. With the teams the Cubs have left, the number of left-handed starters they face should go down from what it has been recently. (In contrast in the division, Cincy has faced 32, Houston 36, St. Louis 39, and Milwaukee 40).

I was literally just tossing two lineups together. I didn't much think about who played where. A couple points: It's hard to accept people diminishing Soto's ability to at least be equal to Kendall offensively based on major league performances. He doesn't have a big enough sample to draw conclusions. What he does have are stellar PCL numbers that seem to indicate that though he's in a hitters league, he's performing at a high clip even accounting for that. Given that he's also likely much better than Kendall defensively, I see no reason not to give him an extended look. It would be tricky for him to underperform Kendall's 2007 numbers to date. As far as Pie/Jones+Pagan, it's a matter of if you believe Pie simply needs time to adjust to ML hitting. I do believe this. I think what he brings to the table defensively and his potential offensive output are enough for me to not care about the "security" Jones and Pagan bring with their abysmal 2007 numbers. DeRosa is the better option, but he needs some rest soon. He seems to be wearing down. If it were up to me, while Soriano's out we would run Murton in LF and Pie in CF, with Jones in RF. Floyd looks completely awful and Pagan is no everyday player. I'd at the least replace Hill with Soto, although I'd like to replace Kendall with Soto. I'd have Cedeno and Fontenot split time at 2B for a week or so for DeRosa to get a breather. I'd line up like: Theriot Murton Lee Ramirez Jones Fontenot Pie Soto It's not ideal. It's not particularly good. However, I do think it's better that what's being tossed out there right now, because what's being put out there right now is being put out there based on career numbers that peaked 6 years ago. Yeah, if it were me I'd bring Soto up today to replace Kendall. I'd then start playing Kendall 3 games and Soto 2 games through the rotation (since they are both big question marks-which Kendall is the real one, the one in Oakland or the one in Chicago? Which Soto is the real one)? After 3-4 turns through the rotation, they would either remain sharing time like that, or if one is hitting much better then the other one that one should get the time. As for Pie, I really believe that Jones has turned a corner. I think they had him change to a shorter swing that allows him to have a higher average (although takes some of his power out of play). His walks are up, his strikeouts are down (9 walks and 7 strikeouts in his last 77 at-bats, that's very good for a guy like Jacque). I also think Pie just needs time against ML pitching to adjust. If it were me, I would have given him that time earlier in the year. At this point though, I feel that by the time he adjusts he will end up hurting the Cubs offensively. I'd keep Pie down for now, and then bring him up a couple days before September starts (I think Pie could be a very useful bench player on the post season roster and so would like to see him brought up before September 1st). I'd trade Jones after the season, and then install Pie as the primary CF and continue to play him through slumps (although I might platoon him-I'm not sure Pie will ever be good enough to play against left-handers). As for DeRosa, I'd definitely start giving him more days off.

I'll play this game. Imagine a lineup of: Theriot Murton Lee Ramirez Floyd DeRosa Soto Pie vs a lineup of: Theriot Cedeno Lee Ramirez Floyd Jones Pagan Kendall Which one consists of 4 players that are completely useless, with no upside, and which one has 4 players in their place that at least have the potential to be better, and can't possibly be worse. I don't know why you put Cedeno in the second lineup and DeRosa in the first one-it would seem to be the other way around (all the other veterans per se are in the second lineup). As for can't possibly be worse, yes they most certainly can. Jones was having his worst year at the plate before the last month, and Pie was still worse than him. He could be better, but there is a chance that you see that .270 OBP which would kill the Cubs at this point. Soto can definitely be worse than Kendall because Soto has no guarantee of getting on base (and his very limited major league time has been lousy). There is significant chance of upside for both of those players, but both of those players could also be considerably worse than the people they are replacing. As for Murton-Pagan, I would agree with that completely, but the Cubs don't usually put Pagan anywhere but center. The same with Cedeno and DeRosa-DeRosa's the much better option.

Would he have to pass through all the AL teams first? Or just the ones with a worse record than us? No AL teams at all, just the NL teams with a worse record than the Cubs.

How many teams are above us? Right now, the Cubs are tied with L.A. and Philadelphia (have no idea how they handle waiver claims in that case). The teams in front of us are: Pittsburgh, San Francisco, Houston, Washington, Florida, St. Louis, Colorado Florida's out-salary issues. San Francisco and Pittsburgh seem unlikely-what would be the point? Houston and Colorado-probably not. That leaves Washington and St. Louis as the most likely teams to claim him, and I'm not sure the Cardinals have enough salary to make a claim (so basically they'd just be trying to block the Cubs, which I'm not sure they'd do).

I'm 99 percent sure he won't tonight. It sounds like (without considering days off) the lineup against right-handers will be: Theriot Patterson Lee Ramirez Floyd DeRosa Jones Kendall They are going to have the OF alignment be Patterson, Jones, Floyd against right-handers and Murton, Pagan, DeRosa against left-handers.

But God forbid we give the prospects we call up enough time to show what they can do at the major league level. Ride the pine kiddies...Cliff Floyd needs to get his AB's. And we can't have Jacque Jones throwing a temper tantrum. Exactly the reason I used "manic" to describe the shuffling. You can include the quarter cup of coffee Soto got. I don't think he will be the next Johnny Bench, but for kripe's sake, why give the guy a chance. Didn't Soto help foster Hill's turn around late last year when he was called up and caught him? No, he didn't. Hill started turning around in early August, and Soto didn't come up until September. Soto started 7 games in September-2 of those were Hill starts. 1 outing was Rich Hill's complete game shutout 1 outing was 5 innings, 4 runs

Crap, he's only allowed 2 runs both times he's faced us (4/9 & 6/11) but he didn't get the win either time. Howry gave up the lead in the first game (and got the loss by giving up a 2 run homer to Everett. Definitely a game to forget) and Z won the second matchup with 8 innings of 1 run ball. He also homered to win 2-1. This guy is due to get blasted by the Cubs. We also have acquired the secret weapon against Woody Williams-Jason Kendall. He better not sit tomorrow. He is 18/35 against Williams on his career! I rarely if ever see a hitter who is over .500 against a pitcher in that many at-bats. It also would be a good day to give DeRosa off. He is 1/10 against Williams, and Fontenot is 2/3 against him. Since we already know EPatt is playing tomorrow, it looks like: EPatt Theriot Lee Ramirez Floyd Fontenot Jones Kendall Marshall Personally, I'd move Kendall up in the lineup tomorrow. He has now extended his on base streak to 10 games, and in 7 of those got on base at least twice. Combine that with his numbers against Williams, and he should really move up in the order.

First batter of the game! And the last batter of his game (in a tough spot - 2 on, 2 out). Jeff's final line: 6 IP, 1 ER, 6 H, 2 K/2 BB, 7 GO-9 FO. That's a really encouraging start. Hopefully he can put together a few good starts before the end of the year. I fail to see what is encouraging about those numbers. Well, most people would have predicted that he would have gotten shelled. 3 of the flyouts were popups, so he got 10 outs in the infield. Also, only 1 extra base hit (a double). If he can continue to keep the ball in the park and allow mostly singles, he can survive even with the low strikeout numbers. Obviously, it would be a lot better if his secondary pitches come around a bit and he can increase those K numbers though because that raises his projection value by quite a bit. So maybe really encouraging was a bit too far, but it was definitely encouraging (as was his Daytona starts since the break).

First batter of the game! And the last batter of his game (in a tough spot - 2 on, 2 out). Jeff's final line: 6 IP, 1 ER, 6 H, 2 K/2 BB, 7 GO-9 FO. That's a really encouraging start. Hopefully he can put together a few good starts before the end of the year.

Exactly Ryan was "benched" to get his swing back because Lou said his bat was getting slow. Not because of him being in the doghouse like Cedeno, Murton, Pie. It seems as if once a young player gets in Lous doghouse there is no coming out of it, but a Veteran gets his chance to work his way out of it. Cedeno wouldnt be on the team if Lou didn't want him. Pie wasn't in the doghouse he didn't hit. We will have to agree to disagree, because him being here means nothing. It was the most logical choise with how Ronny was hitting, and how much Izturis sucked. There's gonna be a problem, then, if Lou buries Pie in the doghouse and Hendry continues to say Pie's untouchable in trade discussions. I'm not sure Pie is in the doghouse. Lou started him for a while when Soriano was hurt, and then Pie played himself out of the job. Lou started him for a longer period in June, and then Pie played himself out of the job again. I'm not sure Pie will get another chance this year (except for limited starts in September when rosters expand) but I haven't seen anything to suggest that Pie has fallen into the doghouse. If he was in the doghouse, why would Lou be working with him personally so much right before he went down again? Also, Lou said that he would love to have Pie up with the ballclub the whole year because he added value to the club, but that he understood if Hendry felt it was better for Pie's development to get consistent at-bats down at the minor league level.

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. Also, its not loke FLoyd is hitting the cover off the ball, or Pagan but yet we continue to see these guys in RF over a guy like Murton. Theriot definitely got a second chance after his awful month. Pie got a second chance (but not a third yet). Theriot got a 2nd chance because there was nobody other than Cesar Izturis to play over him. Pie was given sporadic AB"s and Lou is surprised he didnt play well? Felix's AB's were anything but sporadic. Most of his at-bats each time he was up came all bunched together before he was benched and then sent down each time. Similarly, Jones was only given a second chance because Pie failed. Eyre was given a second chance because he started impressing in his limited time. Also, Eyre is still behind just about everyone else in the bullpen, similar to how Cedeno is still behind all the other infielders.

This isn't entirely true. Lou has given Cedeno a second chance and he's allowing Eyre and Jones the opportunity to play; one could argue that he was forced to do so by the contracts of the last two but that didn't stop him from burying JJ (and Cesar) for long stretches a few months ago. On the subject of Pie, this team can't afford to allow him to hit .200. There are 52 games left in this season and Lou isn't a AAA manager. Overall, Lou has done a fine job this season and while I like Murton, I'm not going to lobby for him over any other player. I don't care who plays just as long as they are productive. It's not like Murton was hitting the cover off the ball at any point this season for the Cubs (and his defense was a problem--and it had very little to do with playing RF for the first time because he failed to make routine plays on balls that should have been in the glove). Hell, we're talking about the same manager who thought Theriot wasn't a ML SS earlier in the year. Yet, he allowed Theriot to play enough to win the job fulltime. When? The only players under Lou who have been given 2nd chances are proven veterans like Jones and Eyre. Also, its not loke FLoyd is hitting the cover off the ball, or Pagan but yet we continue to see these guys in RF over a guy like Murton. Theriot definitely got a second chance after his awful month. Pie got a second chance (but not a third yet).

Why? Marshall and Hill will be fine. Don't worry about it. But Marquis wont, so there is reason to have concern about our rotation. Gallagher has been pretty good at AAA. He could take Marquis' spot in the rotation. LOL yea that will happen when pigs fly. Ive been on the Gallgher replaceing Marquis for awhile, but realistically its not happening. Marquis still has 2 years 14 mil left we are stuck with him. Oh and Gallagher has been VERY good at AAA. 3-1 2.16 ERA. Yea thats decent, but to bad we give out long term contracts to below average starting pitchers. The biggest problem is finding Gallagher a roster spot. If Marquis is still struggling as much as he has been, Lou might turn to Gallagher sometime in September when rosters expand.

Why not call him up to the big team? You lose a corner OF with power, replace him with a corner OF with power. 20HR, .593 SLG, 1.017 OPS I wouldn't mind calling Kroeger up as soon as he gets playing back in Iowa again and proves that he is healthy.

That's really overstating the situation. Pie had a line of .224/.240/.388 the first time he was up, and a .211/.290/.322 line the second time he was up. I don't know what you'd call that, but I'd call it pretty terrible. The Cubs cannot afford a player right now with an OBP under .300 playing everyday.

Well so does Murton. So we can guess that maybe he won't. If you ask me you've gotta give kids like Murton, Pie, Patterson the majority of the at bats over guys like pagan, floyd, and jones. You use those 3 if they happen to have good carreer #'s against a certain pitcher. But that's not how this team thinks. . If it were me. . Theroit SS Patterson 2B Lee 1B Ramirez 3B Derosa RF Jones CF Murton LF Kendall C P I like this lineup This is largely the reason I think this move is stupid. Not to re-hash the whole Murton debate, but what Lou/Hendry need to do is bring up Pie, play him in CF...acknowledge that Fontenot is a bench player, play DeRo @ 2b, & let Murton play RF full time--put non-slugging Cliff in LF... I know I'm not breaking new ground, as this seems to be the consensus on this board... Even assuming EPatt is put in CF, why? Put the, ahem, "natural" CF w/ the big club...not a guy who has played there for a stertch of games in the minors.. 1) The Cubs are not going to bench Jones because of Soriano's injury. If they weren't going to do it yesterday, they certainly aren't going to do it today (and Jones is off to a fast start in August after having a decent July). In fact, one could argue that Jones is the superior player to Floyd at this point of the season. 2) Pie hasn't hit at all either time he's been called up. The organization must think that Patterson with his shorter swing will be able to adjust to major league pitching faster than Pie, and since this club needs offense right now they need to bring up the best bats they can (except apparently at backup catcher). Also, Patterson is a top of the order hitter, which really shouldn't matter but it does in most major league organizations, and that helped Patterson get here as well.

Not hitting in the majors does not = big league success either. Just ask most of the Cubs roster. I can see your point when talking about Soto, but what do we have to lose? As for Murton, he's proven it already with 550+ ABs. What do we have to lose? The very good OBP that Kendall is putting up with the Cubs. Of course, there are possibilities for gains as well.

Kendall was on 2nd when Murton pinch-hit in the 9th.

As far as the Jacque Jones thing, did you really want to burn Jones there? With the Soriano injury, they had already used Fontenot. If you burn Jones without even an at-bat, now you've used your top 3 hitters off of the bench in the 7th inning. When the pitcher's spot comes up again (which might be in a big spot), you only have Ronny Cedeno and Koyie Hill left on the bench.

did I mention that he'd get 4 AB's a week for the Cubs? At this point, Pie only has 3-4 weeks in his minor league season left anyway. I'd like him to be called up even if he does only get a few at-bats a week. One, he can help the team right now just being a defensive replacement, pinch runner, etc. (and it won't hurt him too much because there isn't much minor league season left). Second, if he can survive on the squad through the end of the month, he can be placed on the postseason roster, where he could be very valuable in that role.

I think Murton didn't come out last night because Lou didn't like his numbers against Glavine. I think you'll definitely see Murton against just about every left-hander, but the question is how many right-handers? So tonight, it will probably be: Theriot Fontenot Lee Ramirez (maybe a change here) DeRosa Murton Pagan Kendall (or Hill-Kendall has started 3 straight) R. Hill

I thought it was going to be somewhat close the first time I saw it (and was wondering why Soriano did it) but when I saw the replay I could see that if Soriano runs at full speed all the way and slides into the bag, the throw definitely would have been late.