Caryatid

Trust me, no you dont unless you enjoy exceptionaly low morals. And the downside is?

For the right deal I would trade anyone on the Cubs roster. I don't think people want to give Aramis away but his attitude and lack of hustle leave something to be desired. You can critcize him for his effort, that doesn't mean you want to give him away. I don't disagree, but judging by what I'm hearing on the radio, reading in the sportspages, and seeing on other message boards, there's a growing sentiment that Aramis is a big problem and needs to be shipped out for whatever they can get. He's quickly becoming the player many fans are scapegoating.

Get ready for this year's scapegoat: Aramis Ramirez. The majority of Cubs fans think they would be happy with a guy who hits .230 but "tries real hard."

My dream scenario: Trade Marshall and Hill for Crawford. Trade Ramirez, Pie, and Cash for Cabrera. Trade Pierre to White Sox for OF/Pitching Prospects. Trade Maddux to Dodgers for pitching/OF prospects. Trade Jones to Yankees for Pitching Prospects. Sign Schmidt, Milton Bradley, Doug Davis/Ted Lilly Re-Sign Walker Start year with lineup of: Crawford Walker Lee Cabrera Bradley Barrett Murton Cedeno Zambrano Schmidt Prior Davis/Lilly Marmol And their payroll would still be under 90 million, and only two position players would be over 30. But, of course, its based on semi-unrealistic trade scenarios. But this is a "dream scenario", right?

Tell that to Joe Girardi.

We've already discussed ad nauseum the fact that this guy will make any excuse imaginable to make sure we understand that NOTHING is his fault. Well, he took it a step further today. This from the Trib: He's more caught up in what the reporters think of his overall record than what would be best for this club. He continues to make it obvious that this isn't about the Cubs for Baker-it is about him and HIS record, HIS reputation. He could care less about the team he's coaching-this is a guy in it for his own glorification. Absolutely pathetic.

The worst thing in sports is to be mediocre. If .500 is a goal, its a goal that guarantees not only mediocrity for years to come, but also a never ending cycle of disappointment. Getting to .500 would be the worst thing that could happen to this team and those of us who aren't just satisfied with "being entertained." Many of us would rather have a championship-and getting to .500 this year would push us further away from a championship.

Let's see...this dark age started in 1908 and ended in...in... Never mind.

In the 10 games since Lee has returned, the team is 2-8. Now that's progress!

didn't bill simmons write an article once basically saying he thought wade boggs wasn't that great because he walked all the time? I think he wrote something along the lines of "not a franchise player" because he was an OBP guy, not a run producer, but I can't remember fully. I guess that just begs the question of whether or not HRs/SLG are needed for a guy to be considered a franchise player. Ichiro doesn't really have them, but I would argue that Ichiro brings more to the table than did Boggs or Gwynn. ichiro might bring more different things to the table, but when it comes to the main course, boggs was showing up with filet mignon and ichiro's got a sirloin. I always thought Boggs was a chicken kinda guy...

My thought was always that guys who should be considered "core" players are ones that do not need to be compensated for. In other words, you can build around their talents, but you don't need to say "because we have this guy, we need to bring something that he can't do by getting another player." Using that criteria, I'd probably list only Lee, Barrett, Ramirez, and Zambrano as the true "core." They're the only players who don't require the team, because of a deficiency on their part, to go out and pursue someone to make up for them.

didn't bill simmons write an article once basically saying he thought wade boggs wasn't that great because he walked all the time? I think he wrote something along the lines of "not a franchise player" because he was an OBP guy, not a run producer, but I can't remember fully. I guess that just begs the question of whether or not HRs/SLG are needed for a guy to be considered a franchise player. Ichiro doesn't really have them, but I would argue that Ichiro brings more to the table than did Boggs or Gwynn.

I was posting in another thread regarding whether Matt Murton's lack of power would prevent him from becoming a franchise player (if, obviously, his other numbers were big). But the conversation segued into Boggs and Gwynn-and I think it could be an interesting question. Would Wade Boggs, Tony Gwynn, and (to a lesser extent) Rod Carew be considered franchise players today? I've been looking at their numbers, and while they're great, I just don't know if they would be considered terrific complementary players or franchise players.

now, on this part of your post...that means that Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn weren't franchise players, right? Wait...has Matt Murton now entered the "Wade Boggs/Tony Gwynn" echelon in just under one full season of major league time? don't be ridiculous. He was merely pointing out two players not known for power that were indeed franchise players, which does back up his point that power isn't the end all be all as a franchise player. He wasn't saying murton is like boggs/gwynn just that he doesn't need power to be a franchise player... I'm not sure that Boggs or Gwynn would be considered franchise players today. And even if they would be, his numbers would have to be so over the top in AVG/OBP so as to compensate for the lack of power.

now, on this part of your post...that means that Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn weren't franchise players, right? Wait...has Matt Murton now entered the "Wade Boggs/Tony Gwynn" echelon in just under one full season of major league time?

Do I need to? How about I just look at the stats of the core team I listed? What do you know, those look pretty good, outside of a slumping Ramirez and Dempster's recent struggles. The core you listed: Lee, Howry, Eyre, Cedeno, Barrett, Jones, Prior, Marshall Ramirez and Dempster you agreed were struggling. That's 8 out of 25 spots; in other words, 17 out of 25 need to be "tweaked." That's a heck of a tweaking... Well, you forgot Zambrano and the second youth from the farm, and you included the bench, which is just a numbers pad for your point. Every team turns over the majority of its bench each year, so I do not like including the bench in "tweak" numbers. So using actual math (as opposed to fuzzy math), I listed 12/20 roster spots, leaving eight. 5/8 are pitching slots, at least one of which is likely coming from within the current team. So the reality is, aside from the bench, 2 starters, 2 bullpen guys, and 3 position players. I'm comfortable calling that a tweak. Pretty standard roster turnover in the bigs these days from year to year. That's assuming Jones continues doing what he's doing right now (highly unlikely), "youth from the farm" is actually a part of the core (hard to think, considering the person is unidentified), and Marshall/Cedeno develop. That's THREE "maybes" among the core, which, in my opinion, doesn't really make them part of any "core." So "tweaking" in this case could mean up to 11 changes, not eight. And that's not tweaking. Its not fuzzy math, either.

In a year that so many "experts" consider a down year for A-Rod, he's still got the 4th highest OPS of any 3B in baseball this year.

Since we're making suggestions, I'll make one too. If you don't want people to comment on something, don't post about it. You posted about the how argumentative threads are for over half of your original post, and now you don't like if someone comments on it? Sorry...that's gonna happen. So as not to derail the intent of this thread though, lets let it drop. There. So as not to confuse the topic of the thread, I simply deleted the beginning of the first post. Now no one will feel the need to defend the honor of their naysaying. Post on...

Um...first of all you've gotten a lot of replies with a lot of different suggestions. And secondly, over half of your original post dealt with this impression that so many threads had arguments. So BBB and I addressed that, and I think each of attempted to do so in a manner that was very cordial. I'm not sure it called for the outrage. That's fine, although my suggestion for you is that if you don't agree with the premise of my post or think its part of a larger general problem with message boards, understanding that the thread was designed for a purpose which you may or may not agree with, simply don't post in this thread. That would be the most cordial thing to do. I fully understand the nature of this, as well as other message boards. Rather than complain within another thread about that, I thought it might be more productive to simply start a separate thread where people could just see what's out there and who people liked. That's all.

Good god-just trying to start a thread in which people could just see who's out there, and the possibilities associated with each, rather than every thread devolving into senseless bickering. So much for that. I'll make sure to just post "Adam Dunn Sucks" in my next thread. That'll be productive.

Do I need to? How about I just look at the stats of the core team I listed? What do you know, those look pretty good, outside of a slumping Ramirez and Dempster's recent struggles. The core you listed: Lee, Howry, Eyre, Cedeno, Barrett, Jones, Prior, Marshall Ramirez and Dempster you agreed were struggling. That's 8 out of 25 spots; in other words, 17 out of 25 need to be "tweaked." That's a heck of a tweaking...

He wouldn't-the Rangers are paying $10 million per year. The Yankees only pay $17 million per. He probably still won't do it, though.

According to that same article (in the comments section), the Yankees are paying him $17 million per year, which would (I assume) be taken over by the Cubs.

I don't believe he'd say it even if he was going to have a fire sale, but there are certainly some disturbing things (as would be expected): http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cs-060702cubsbits,1,5894996.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Jason Schmidt, Miguel Tejada, Trot Nixon, Alfonso Soriano, Bobby Abreu. Look at the first three responses to the "Ramirez for Abreu" thread. I hadn't read it before just now, but its a textbook example of what I wrote originally.