Blueheart05

OMG, I'm eating crow on this as I said I didn't think he would sign today. The radio report said he's pending a physical. OMG!

You're right, I didn't read it closely. FIXED

But that upgrade has to be worth the cost. Neifi is Neifi and always has been Neifi. We know Neifi will suck and has no chance to earn his 2 year $5m deal. As small a chance as it may be, at least Corey, at his age and with his skills and brief flashes of solid play, has a chance to live up to a $3m 1 year contract. But isn't the rumored deal for Jones roughly 1 year/$3 million? Even if it's a bit more, I'd pay an extra million bucks or so to have Jones instead of Corey. I doubt it, he made 5M last year.

LOL, I'm not being clear. I value Lidge but I would be disappointed if the Cubs got another bullpen arm (no matter how good) considering the problems on this current team. As it stands, the Cubs realistically need a SP and a RF. Keeping Lidge and subtracting Williams really doesn't better the Cubs for 2006. If anything it leaves them with less to trade for unless they all of a sudden go after a pitcher in the dwindling FA market. Again, I love Lidge but I don't see how he makes sense for the Cubs as they are currently constructed. I believe these are hypothetical sitations where they are comparing the values between Williams and Lidge. I don't think anyone is actually saying we should exchange pitchers. I realize that but I also mentioned in my posts that I was talking about the current Cubs team and people responded with surprise. All things being equal, I would take Lidge over Williams because it's easier to fill a slot for a number 3/4 pitcher than a dominant bullpen person (if there is a need. Obviously, I wouldn't if I had Rivera, Gagne in his hayday, or Wagner). Team needs dictate every acquisition..

From Cubs.com

LOL, I'm not being clear. I value Lidge but I would be disappointed if the Cubs got another bullpen arm (no matter how good) considering the problems on this current team. As it stands, the Cubs realistically need a SP and a RF. Keeping Lidge and subtracting Williams really doesn't better the Cubs for 2006. If anything it leaves them with less to trade for unless they all of a sudden go after a pitcher in the dwindling FA market. Again, I love Lidge but I don't see how he makes sense for the Cubs as they are currently constructed.

I think the chances of Jones being signed today are slim (I also don't see the Cubs dropping Corey and getting nothing in return). Let's hope JJ doesn't leave all the Royals' cash on the table.

WHAT?!? Williams is at least as valuable as Lidge? Please, let's hear this argument... Williams(or other SP) is going to pitch 3 times as many innings as Lidge will in a given season. Therefore, even though his performance isn't as dominant as Lidge's, he's worth more to the team because the quantity outweighs the marginal difference in quality. Wow. Only here could Williams be classified with Lidge. The tradition of WAY overvaluing Cubs players and prospects is alive and well. So, your logic is that Williams is as valuable as Lidge because of the innings he eats? I guess the same could be said for Rusch as well then, right? And, the suggestion that there is only a marginal difference in quality is a joke. In around 50 less innings, Lidge won only two fewer games than Williams, struck out many more hitters, had a much lower ERA, and a considerably lower WHIP in 2005. All is true for their 3 year averages, as well. Yes, Williams is younger. No, he isn't (in any way, shape, or form) comparable to one of the most dominant closers in the game. You really wouldn't trade Williams for Lidge? You'd be crazy. Williams is a dime a dozen. Lidge is one of about 4 or 5. Several teams have a Williams. Very few have a Lidge. People here really wouldn't trade Williams for Lidge? :roll: I would not trade Williams for Lidge on this current team. The Cubs need to add starting pitching (and offense). The bullpen has a surplus of arms. Lidge isn't needed on this team however, he would be a welcomed addition on most staffs. Frankly, I think the Astros are considering selling Lidge while his value is still high. If the latter part of the season/playoffs are any indication, he isn't as rock solid as one believed (especially not in big games). IIRC, the Cubs got to him twice last year including the end of the year and we all know he was less than dependable in the NLCS & WS. I would trade for him in a second than turn around deal him for someone a heck of a lot better than Williams. This is crazy talk. I was referring to keeping him. There's no doubt that Lidge is a great bargaining chip.

WHAT?!? Williams is at least as valuable as Lidge? Please, let's hear this argument... Williams(or other SP) is going to pitch 3 times as many innings as Lidge will in a given season. Therefore, even though his performance isn't as dominant as Lidge's, he's worth more to the team because the quantity outweighs the marginal difference in quality. Wow. Only here could Williams be classified with Lidge. The tradition of WAY overvaluing Cubs players and prospects is alive and well. So, your logic is that Williams is as valuable as Lidge because of the innings he eats? I guess the same could be said for Rusch as well then, right? And, the suggestion that there is only a marginal difference in quality is a joke. In around 50 less innings, Lidge won only two fewer games than Williams, struck out many more hitters, had a much lower ERA, and a considerably lower WHIP in 2005. All is true for their 3 year averages, as well. Yes, Williams is younger. No, he isn't (in any way, shape, or form) comparable to one of the most dominant closers in the game. You really wouldn't trade Williams for Lidge? You'd be crazy. Williams is a dime a dozen. Lidge is one of about 4 or 5. Several teams have a Williams. Very few have a Lidge. People here really wouldn't trade Williams for Lidge? :roll: I would not trade Williams for Lidge on this current team. The Cubs need to add starting pitching (and offense). The bullpen has a surplus of arms. Lidge isn't needed on this team however, he would be a welcomed addition on most staffs. Frankly, I think the Astros are considering selling Lidge while his value is still high. If the latter part of the season/playoffs are any indication, he isn't as rock solid as one believed (especially not in big games). IIRC, the Cubs got to him twice last year including the end of the year and we all know he was less than dependable in the NLCS & WS.

I really think Weaver is undervalued and gets a reasonable deal. One word: Boras I read he'll accept arb if he doesn't get a good deal. Boras can only do so much. Weaver isn't going to command huge money. Besides, the Cubs have a decent working relationship with Boras; he's the agent for both Zambrano and Maddux (he's also Corey's agent and I don't see him having much leverage for him in the near future).

Here's Rosenthal's take

That's right and if you read those quotes they both say the Cardinals are still in the running for JJ. :wink: :lol:

Calm down folks, this isn't a done deal. CBSsportsline claims that several outlets say they are close but what they actually say is that a contract offer is confirmed. Most point to the Suntimesfor it's info. That article doesn't say they are close to a deal just that a contract was offered. Daily Herald Even Rotoworldpoints to the suntimes article

:x :x :x :x :x :x Yeah but they are using the Suntimes as their source and all that article says is that the Cubs confirmed that they offered a deal which is rumored to be no more than 2 years but probably one. The Daily Herald has also confirmed an offer. Sportsline is overhyping this situation.

I have faith in him, but I think his value is as a starter, and I'm afraid they signed Glendon for that role. My feeling is that Rusch was signed as a backup for Wood. However, Williams is a better pitcher than Rusch and should have no problem outdueling him for a rotation spot (if it comes down to that).

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer. I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it. Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons? And not only him, but other valuable players, too? Goodness gracious. I agree. I also don't think the Cubs would give up 4 young players to get him. The loss of Pie, Williams, Nova, and Wuertz (as someone suggested) would hurt the Cubs more in the long run. On the other hand, I see the Lidge deal as more of an equal value trade. Lidge will be 30 next year. Well Abreu will be a solid players for quite a few more years. Novoa and Wuertz are easily replaceable and Williams has the ceiling of a 3rd starter so he's not hard to replace either. Also, who really cares about the long run at this point? It's been almost 100 years. Adding Abreu to this team instantly makes us a world series contender and possibly the favorites (not that it matters). I don't see how you don't make that trade. How many is quite a few? He's 32 years old so we can hope that he maintains his current numbers for the next 3 years. The guy is on the otherside of his prime. BTW, I'm not saying I wouldn't make the deal (see my later post) but it depends on the other players involved. Pie isn't a deal breaker to me especially with the acquisition of Pierre and seeming revolving door in RF.

Separate issue, but I don't believe we have as much money left to spend as most here think we do. This is especially true if Prior is indeed eligible for arbitration. Prior, Zambrano, and don't forget that Hendry has already said publically that he hopes to ink DLee to a n extension before the season starts. Edit: Sullivan says there are six arbitration eligible Cubs: Trib

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer. I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it. Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons? And not only him, but other valuable players, too? Goodness gracious. There's quite a few reasons. Pie is not a sure thing. Sure he's put up some good minor league numbers and as you said, scouts well, but everyone remembers the Corey Pattersons, Hee Seop Chois, and other Cubs prospects who were supposed to be cant-miss prospects and turned into nothing great. If you can get stud value for Pie, you did it. And yes, Abreu IS a stud. He's had only 1 year since 1998 with an OBP below .400 (in 2001 he only posted a .393 OBP). He also has had a slugging at .468 or better every year since 1998. Is that not enough? He has also stolen 19 or more bases every year since 98. (Just for the record, I dont think his stolen bases are much of an asset b/c he gets caught a lot, but his overall speed on the bases and in the field are nice to have). He also has a very good arm and pretty good in the outfield. Basically he walks like crazy, gets a lot of extra base hits, and plays good defense. I'd trade an unknown and unproven player like Pie in a heartbeat. Also, the money isn't much of a factor because we have a lot of leftover money to spend. Basically Pie for Abreu is a no-brainer in my eyes. It depends on the other players involved. I would probably ask for some money on the deal as well. Abreu has a few good years left but he isn't in his prime.

Would you trade Williams for Lidge? No, we don't need Lidge but at this point we need Williams or another SP.

You have no idea what Hendry will or won't do, unless you have some personal relationship with Jim that I'm unaware of? Dealing Pie in a package for a player like Abreu should be a no-brainer. I know I'm going to get killed for this, but so be it. Why are we anxious to trade a 20 year old centerfielder who scouts well and put up a .903 OPS in Double-A at age 20 for a 32 year old rightfielder who couldn't get his OPS over .900 last season playing in one of the best offensive parks in the National League, posted a .787 OPS after the All-Star break, and is due $30 million over the next two seasons? And not only him, but other valuable players, too? Goodness gracious. I agree. I also don't think the Cubs would give up 4 young players to get him. The loss of Pie, Williams, Nova, and Wuertz (as someone suggested) would hurt the Cubs more in the long run. On the other hand, I see the Lidge deal as more of an equal value trade. Lidge will be 30 next year.

The Astros might also be willing to part with Lidge in a deal for Abreu which trumps anything we'd be willing to offer. i don't think the astros would give up lidge. Well, that's yet to be seen but there have been reports that he's being shopped and his name has definitely been mentioned in trade rumors. Even the Chronicle says teams have been inquiring about his status. If he was untouchable McClain would have put an end to the rumblings like Hendry did for the Prior and Zambrano rumors. i just doubt that philly would ask for lidge in return, as they don't really need to swap their best position player for a closer. if philly is smart, they ask for oswalt. The report I read out of Houston last month or earlier this month stated that Houston would shop Lidge for the right deal because they are confident that Wheeler can close. My guess is that they wouldn't part with Oswalt considering the loss of Clemens. The seem to be eager to deal Backe however (probably because they feel Astasio is ready).

WHAT?!? Williams is at least as valuable as Lidge? Please, let's hear this argument... Williams(or other SP) is going to pitch 3 times as many innings as Lidge will in a given season. Therefore, even though his performance isn't as dominant as Lidge's, he's worth more to the team because the quantity outweighs the marginal difference in quality. I undertsand your point but I think, if given the opportunity, the Phillies would like to replace Wagner before acquiring a middle of the rotation guy. Closers are much harder to acquire.

The Astros might also be willing to part with Lidge in a deal for Abreu which trumps anything we'd be willing to offer. i don't think the astros would give up lidge. Well, that's yet to be seen but there have been reports that he's being shopped and his name has definitely been mentioned in trade rumors. Even the Chronicle says teams have been inquiring about his status. If he was untouchable McClain would have put an end to the rumblings like Hendry did for the Prior and Zambrano rumors.

Good call, Mon. Arguably one of the ten best players in baseball is available, plays a position where we have a gaping hole and could be had for a few relievers and a starter. Hendry should be fired soon after. What can the Cubs offer that tops any Houston deal involving Lidge? Be realistic please. Pie, Williams, Wuertz and Novoa would be my offer. They aren't better than Lidge. IMO, Abreu for Lidge straightup or if Philly insists they can throw in another lesser pitcher. The Cubs can't compete with that trade because they cannot part with a quality pitcher.