C.C.

Seems like Fonz is always down 0-2

It's amazing how this team is entirely predictable.

Nah. We'll score 3 and lose by 1.

That could've been a lot worse. Marquis is battling...

It wasn't that way pre-TJ surgery. I'm glad we signed him after that. We didn't.

That's not very bold? See what I did there? Its called sarcasm. :wink: So was mine. :wink:

BOOO!

Marquis = Cy Young

Fat arse goes down...

Yep. Time to give the Derosa a day off...

Good job Marquis. Now lets score!

We suck!

We're already doing better from yesterday!

Yes it is

I pretty much agree with that. I just found it alarming that they are going to skip him now. Either put him out there as your 5th starter and see what he can do, or put someone else in there. Skipping him is just delaying the inevitable. Z is the one who is in danger of abuse-if you're going to start him every 5th day anyway, you might as well skip the 5th starter and let everyone else pitch on the 5th day as well. Until a 5th starter option that will be better than the top 4 pitchers emerges, the less starts that spot gets and the more the team will win. But how is someone supposed to "emerge" as the fifth starter if Miller is getting skipped and Guzman is pitching 3 innings (or less) a week? They could be trying to buy time for Prior, but I doubt that. We are only 7 games into the season. Someone will emerge.

Guzman is lacking - consistancy - translation of talent - ability to get major league hitters out Both can improve, but Miller won the spot and should be given his chance. There is no gaurantee that Guzman will do better or win games. Can you prove Miller "won" the spot? It seems as if it was given and not earned. Meanwhile, Guzman has: Velocity Movement Control The thing he lacks is experience. There's seriously no risk in having him start over Miller. Why do you think it's a given? Don't you think Lou and Hendry want to win more then anybody. Espically Hendry! If Miller had a terrible ST, I find it hard to believe that Lou would make him the 5th starter because his name is Wade Miller. That's silly...

Look at his minor league numbers and then get back to me about how he isn't waiting to destroy opposing hitters. And why is it that the pitcher with the wrecked shoulder who needs to relearn how to pitch doesn't have to earn it, but the talented guy does? Ok, let me get this straight, spring training stats against major league hitters don't count, but minor league stats against hitters who aren't major league quality do? Dude, come on, you are far more logical then that I hope. As far as earning it, that's what happened in open four way competition in spring training between Neal Cotts, Mark Prior, Wade Miller, and Angel Guzman. He won the spot and deserves the chance to do his job. Why aren't we talking about Howry who has now blown two games or hitters who are not preforming well, because it's way early in the season and they haven't had enough games to judge. Neither has Miller. Be consistant across the board. Judge everyone early, or no one early. Don't just arbitrarily judge people at different points because you might think they may or may not have "the stuff". I don't see how you're comparing Miller to Howry. Howry has pitched great (or at least well) the last two years, oh, and he hasn't had any kind of major surgery and lost 8 mph off his fastball in the process. Doesn't mean he still can't be effective and it doesn't mean he won't regain some of the velocity. Again, let's all relax. If Miller continues to suck and looks done, then I'm sure Prior(?) or Guzman will have their shot at the 5th man. And how many games will Miller's performance cost us in the meantime? One more is too many. And what makes you so sure that Prior or Guzman won't cost us games?

I'm not feeling this game at all. I don't like the matchup of Marquis Vs. Clee.

Look at his minor league numbers and then get back to me about how he isn't waiting to destroy opposing hitters. And why is it that the pitcher with the wrecked shoulder who needs to relearn how to pitch doesn't have to earn it, but the talented guy does? Ok, let me get this straight, spring training stats against major league hitters don't count, but minor league stats against hitters who aren't major league quality do? Dude, come on, you are far more logical then that I hope. As far as earning it, that's what happened in open four way competition in spring training between Neal Cotts, Mark Prior, Wade Miller, and Angel Guzman. He won the spot and deserves the chance to do his job. Why aren't we talking about Howry who has now blown two games or hitters who are not preforming well, because it's way early in the season and they haven't had enough games to judge. Neither has Miller. Be consistant across the board. Judge everyone early, or no one early. Don't just arbitrarily judge people at different points because you might think they may or may not have "the stuff". I don't see how you're comparing Miller to Howry. Howry has pitched great (or at least well) the last two years, oh, and he hasn't had any kind of major surgery and lost 8 mph off his fastball in the process. Doesn't mean he still can't be effective and it doesn't mean he won't regain some of the velocity. Again, let's all relax. If Miller continues to suck and looks done, then I'm sure Prior(?) or Guzman will have their shot at the 5th man.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'll say it again, it's not just one start. Miller's past shouldn't be ignored. Is his past that bad that he couldn't be counted on for a number 5 starter? He's talking about the completely destroyed shoulder, inability to avoid injury and subsequent loss of 10pmh on his fastball. If he's going to throw in the mid 80's with no movement, he should be in long relief so he can work with whoever on a new way to pitch, because what was apparent on Sunday was he was attempting to pitch as if he still had the velocity to overcome lack of movement and control. It's one start. Wow. You're right. Wade Miller existed in a vacuum prior to Sunday. Has he not been hurt for the past two years?

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'll say it again, it's not just one start. Miller's past shouldn't be ignored. Is his past that bad that he couldn't be counted on for a number 5 starter? He's talking about the completely destroyed shoulder, inability to avoid injury and subsequent loss of 10pmh on his fastball. If he's going to throw in the mid 80's with no movement, he should be in long relief so he can work with whoever on a new way to pitch, because what was apparent on Sunday was he was attempting to pitch as if he still had the velocity to overcome lack of movement and control. It's one start.

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now. Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game? He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot? And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis? Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot. Basing your roster on spring training performance is a stupid way to construct your ballclub. Seriously, how hard is this to understand? It's not high school basketball tryouts. You go with talent. Spring training is for getting in shape for the season, not auditioning for starting roles. I cannot believe how this is a difficult concept for people to grasp. Not entirely true. For the kids like Guzman it's a chance to impress as Marshall did last year. Or Rocky Cherry, Theriot, and Cedeno did this year. That's the kind of mentality that has contributed the the Cubs being a suckfest for 99 years. Relying on the piddling sample size of spring training to build your roster. Just about every team has that one breakout performence from a rookie in ST that makes the team. The Cubs are hardly alone in this.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I'll say it again, it's not just one start. Miller's past shouldn't be ignored. Is his past that bad that he couldn't be counted on for a number 5 starter?

I agree, but then again look how the Twins developed Santana. Started him in the Pen, and gradually moved him into the staters role. I like Guzman in the long man right now. No reasons not to trust Lou and his coaches right now. Why would you keep the more talented pitcher in the role that keeps him from pitching, and have the inferioir pitcher affecting every 5th game? He may have talent, but he hasn't shown that he can get major league hitters out on a consistent basis. Perhaps Larry and Lou are working with him on putting hitters away more often. Doesn't he have to step it up and earn that number 5 spot? And what did Wade Miller do to "earn" the #5 spot? Doesn't he have to show he can get ML hitters out on a consistent basis? Wade Miller out-pitched him in ST. If Gooz was the better pitcher, he would've taking that number 5 spot. Basing your roster on spring training performance is a stupid way to construct your ballclub. Seriously, how hard is this to understand? It's not high school basketball tryouts. You go with talent. Spring training is for getting in shape for the season, not auditioning for starting roles. I cannot believe how this is a difficult concept for people to grasp. Not entirely true. For the kids like Guzman it's a chance to impress as Marshall did last year. Or Rocky Cherry, Theriot, and Cedeno did this year.

Miller didn't have to. Take a look at his Sprint Stats.