Amazing_Grace

When you think of Don Baylor, I want you to remember these two words Augie... Ojeda.... The Cubs have been pretty consistently bad over the whole of MacPhail's tenure though, so there's obviously been more going wrong than just having bad managers. Baylor had as much of a traditional approach as Dusty did, and they both had a strange affinity for bad ballplayers and washed-up vets. Baylor may have contributed to Patterson's failures. Dusty probably wasn't good for Cedeno. Neither one really valued stats or understood that the most valuable skill in baseball is 'not making outs'. They were both awful managers. I'll give you that Baylor was never given the kind of talent that Baker was, but he was still a bad manager. That's what most of baseball seems to think anyway, as he hasn't been a manager since leaving the Cubs.

Haha. No GM would be stupid enough to take that deal!! Oh wait. :( Gah, you guys beat me to it.

Maybe he'll equal out to something decent afterall. Still, I'm not in any hurry atleast right now, how Derosa and Fontenot are doing. It's good to have some different options, and a manager that will actually use them.

Theriot is beter on the basepaths, but I've heard that Fontenot is the superior feilder. I don't think you heard correctly. I wonder how long the Fontenot/SS project will go on? I don't know how much SS he has played in his career. I do know that Theriot is originally a SS and feels the most comfortable at that position. Looks good having Theriot, Fontenot, and DeRosa - all capable of playing 2B, SS, and 3B (if needed. I like the depth. My guess would be that it will go on as long as he keeps hitting. Lou seems to be thinking that with Pie cooling off and Barrett being traded, he needs more offense out of his middle infield. I agree with him. We'll see how bad Fontenot looks at SS. If his bat cools off the way Theriot's has, he'll probably not last long. The two players are fairly similar. Small sized middle infielders that are average to below average defensively that are fairly patient and have limited power. I still have hope that Theriot will rebound and put up around a .330-.350 OBP, which would be very good for a SS that has speed and steals at a good clip. It would also likely put the Cubs in the top 10 teams in terms of OBP from that position. A middle infield of Theriot/Fontenot would be very cheap for several years and with DeRosa signed through 09 to what is looking to be a very reasonable contract, we basically have three guys to fill the MI and utility roles. That should free us up to concentrate on getting better in the outfield. That's the optimistic view. The pessimistic side of me realizes that Theriot probably won't rebound and Fontenot will probably end up looking, at best, very average by the end of the year. The consolation is, even if that's the case, they give you more than the likes of Augie, Neifi, Macias, etc. for a fraction of the price.

I agree. I think the only way this question will ever be definitively answered, at least in this thread, is with a visit from the Bruceman.

And Corey is probably screaming NOOOOOOO! Don didn't seem to get along too well with Corey. Will keep the other comments on this topic to myself though. Baylor: He's a good kid, but he's got so much speed, he's gotta learn how to bunt and hit grounders.

So $6.6 million wasn't enough for the Marlins? Sheesh...$6.6 million was way too much to begin with Jim. Glad you finally woke up before Larry really stuck it to you. Well, that's interesting. What is Hendry thinking at this point. He can't actually believe he'll get a decent player for Jones, can he? Hendry should basically say, I don't care what prospect I get. Whoever is willing to pay the most on Jones's contract will get him. Paying 6.6M of 7.2M is crap, regardless of who we get. If we were going to do that, we should have DFAed Jones a month ago. Hendry does need to move it along though. With Jones pouting like a 3 year old, we basically have a 24 man roster.

You assume that these supposed "actual reasons to hire Don Baylor" actually exist.

If they hire Baylor, it is going to be sooooo much fun ragging on my brother, the O's fan, about it. I already had a chuckle at his expense this past weekend over MacPhail.

it depends on when the cash would change hands. For instance if the Cubs picked up all of it this season and none of it next season, the deal doesnt make sense for him. Yeah, I found something like that when I started backing through all these pages. It's not like Hendry is a great GM and Zell just vetoed a blockbuster deal. For all we know, Zell knows about every deal on the table for Jones and Hendry picked the stupidest one.

Doesn't sound like Hendry's fault. Ahhh, cash flow problems. They can't or don't want to pay the cash all at once. Now I see. I don't know how much any of this matters. It's clear that Lou doesn't like Jones and doesn't want to play him. If the Cubs can keep winning series, his teammates will ignore his bellyaching and he'll have to man up to the situation.

This is bizarre. I mean, if the Cubs didn't pay Jones' entire contract, then they'd save money right? Why would Zell object to something that would probably save him money? This seems to defy all logic and reason? He can't possibly believe the team will be more valuable with Jones than without.

And just think, all we had to give up for Izturis 2 half seasons of subpar defense and .300 OBP was future Hall of Famer Greg Maddux. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

But then the MVP candidate David Eckstein couldn't play *gasp*.

It was more a tactless choice of words. Nothing horribly offensive was said, nor were any curse words used. It was, however, cubs.com-esque. The mods did him a favor as otherwise this thread would have ended up two or three pages of responses that basically said "what a lousy insulting way to present your argument" in one form or another. That's what I was going to post when the thread mysteriously vanished. Props to the moderators for keeping this site free of silly name calling. But on the actual point made, I agree. Dusty would never have played Theriot, Fontenot, and would have only very reluctantly played Pie. I don't know what Murton did to piss Lou off, but whatever the reason, I don't think it's because Lou has intense favoritism for veteran players. With Dusty, we'd have had Jones and Izturis every day from opening day. Soriano would probably never have even been tried at CF, and Pagan would probably be starting at least half the games in CF, assuming that is, that Dusty wouldn't have convinced Hendry to acquire Steve Finley or Darin Erstad in the offseason. Hill and Marshall would be throwing 120 pitches when they were pitching well. We would be hearing excuses about how the weather in April, the fans booing Jones, or the injury to Prior being the reason we were losing. Need I go on? i'll repeat my point again. Lou has proven that he's not Dusty Baker, and that he can get a $100M payroll team within four games of .500. I remain underwhelmed. Three months worth W-L record is not really a terribly great way to judge a manager, in my opinion. Also, his $100M dollar team includes... Izturis making 4M, Jones making 5M, Eyre making 3.5M, Howry making 4M, Prior making 3.5M, Wood making 2M, Blanco making 2M, Wade Miller making 2M, and Dempster making 5M. That's 31M on guys that are worthless because they stink and could be replaced by almost anybody (Izturis/Eyre/Jones/Howry/Blanco), are perpetually injured and not playing (Prior/Wood/Miller), or overpaid and easily replaced (Dempster). Now, a manager with this record and a 68M payroll doesn't sound as bad. If you leave Dempster off, since he's both healthy and pitching decently, it's still only a 73M payroll team. Hendry and Dusty made this mess. Lou is trying to fix it, but three months isn't going to be long enough.

It was more a tactless choice of words. Nothing horribly offensive was said, nor were any curse words used. It was, however, cubs.com-esque. The mods did him a favor as otherwise this thread would have ended up two or three pages of responses that basically said "what a lousy insulting way to present your argument" in one form or another. That's what I was going to post when the thread mysteriously vanished. Props to the moderators for keeping this site free of silly name calling. But on the actual point made, I agree. Dusty would never have played Theriot, Fontenot, and would have only very reluctantly played Pie. I don't know what Murton did to piss Lou off, but whatever the reason, I don't think it's because Lou has intense favoritism for veteran players. With Dusty, we'd have had Jones and Izturis every day from opening day. Soriano would probably never have even been tried at CF, and Pagan would probably be starting at least half the games in CF, assuming that is, that Dusty wouldn't have convinced Hendry to acquire Steve Finley or Darin Erstad in the offseason. Hill and Marshall would be throwing 120 pitches when they were pitching well. We would be hearing excuses about how the weather in April, the fans booing Jones, or the injury to Prior being the reason we were losing. Need I go on?

It was a bad signing regardless of what he provided in 2006. In terms of looking at the signing from a 2005 perspective, Hendry gave him at least one too many years. It wasn't going to be the contract that killed us, but it didn't bring in a particularly talented player and guaranteed him 3 years, so from that perspective, yes, it was a bad signing. From the perspective of final results of the contract, if we can trade him, I'd say Hendry got lucky on a bad contract and made it a wash. you could, but who else di we miss out on while Jones was plaugging RF? Props to Hendry, however, for realizing his mistake. Did he realize it, or did he yield to pressure from the fans, media, and his manager?

Mets fans are really fretting over their OF situation. Alou, Beltran and Green have all been banged up, while most think Alou is completely done. They've had a couple kids up but none of them have done much. I could definitely see them having interest in Jones. Me too. Alou is ancient and Green gets injured every other year. I've always thought the Mets would be a possibility. They might be in the running for Griffey as well though.

Completely untrue. Indeed so. It certainly seems that this is a deliberate attempt to allow the owners to decide who they want to buy the Cubs without getting into a public debate or having a high bidder that they don't like start a public feud with them that would end up looking very bad for the 'powers that be' in MLB.

Thanks for the link. That's good info. If that's true, then Cuban, or anyone else, would have to be approved by MLB before they bought the team rather than after. That will make it a bit more difficult for Cuban to end up with the team, since he could be quietly pushed aside early in the running rather than having a situation where he ended up high bidder, and the owners would have to either approve him or risk a prolonged legal battle with both him and the Tribune.

Yes they have a chance. It's not a very good chance, but there's a chance.

DeRosa to the DL is a possibility with his migraine/dizzyness problems. With Pie's BA down into the low .200s, they may send him down (they shouldn't but they might). The other possibility is Theriot, but he has gotten a lot of starts at SS the past 2 weeks despite hitting terribly. Lou may view Theriot as a better bet to improve than Izturis over the rest of the year. Honestly, I sort of suspect there will be a trade of some kind.

I'm not saying it's a BAD stat. I was saying it's terrible for Neifi and for anyone who gets associated with it. Ah, I see what you meant. You mean it's a bad stat for someone to be leading in or score highly in. We'd have to test the stat over time to see if it's a BAD stat in the other sense. My post was sort of a goofy attempt at humor anyway :wink:

Offensively, yes, if they could stay healthy but what "prospects" are we talking about trading for Thome, and who backs up 1b since he's a good bet to get injured at some point. I'd rather do Zambrano for ARod straight up (assuming ARod agrees not to opt out), and then try to maybe pick up a couple pitching prospects by dealing some combination of Izturis/Theriot/Fontenot/DeRosa. The rotation next season would still be respectable (Hill, Marshall, Marquis, Lilly, Gallagher/Guzman), but the offense would be a force to be reckoned with, especially if Murton learns to play RF or Fontenot continues to hit at 2nd allowing DeRosa to move to RF. Moving Z or another of the expensive guys is the only way I think the Cubs could take on a salary the level of ARod.

TEARS.... can't stop laughing at that. What a terrible stat. I dunno. It seems pretty sound. Since you subtract the team winning percentage with him playing from the winning percentage with him not playing, you avoid differences caused by differences in overall team quality and ballpark factors. It could be flawed for certain positions like catcher, since some tend to play when only certain pitchers are on the mound. The question is whether the stat is consistent over time. If a player has consistently the same or a similar Neifi index season after season over the course of his career, and/or if the Neifi index of players with similar numbers is similar over the whole of MLB, we can't simply dismiss the stat as gibberish.