KingKongvs.Godzilla

Ricketts didn't promise Sandberg a managerial job. My vote would be for Willie Randolph. I think most GMs, new or old shool, would find him worthy candidate. He was up for the A's job a while back and I still have my Beane conspiracy.

Hawk Harrelson? Not thread worthy.

Interesting if for no other reason than to see Latos. Awesome arm. I'm hoping Cashner can pull what he pulled in '10, though that's definitely a long shot.

There's no way. Five or six years at @20M/year is what someone is going pay him. Yeah I'm thinking 5/95-100. Unlike Z and Burnett who got similar deals, I think Wilson will be as worth it as an athlete getting 19-20 million can be. IMO he's just hitting his stride.

It is when they can probably do better, even if it's not immediately. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. CJ Wilson is the kind of arm I'd say that about, not Ricky Nolasco. Paying Z to play for the fish and getting and paying a pretty decent pitcher in return is a much better option than paying Z to play for some other team and over paying for Wilson (and whoever gets him will over pay). Disagree on both accounts...not only should they be aiming to do better than Ricky Nolasco and guys like him because they already have guys like him, but overpaying for Wilson in just money is way better than overpaying for Nolasco in prospects and money. Wilson is a better and more battle tested pitcher who's thrown 200+ in the past couple years to top it off. Nolasco is a short, mediocre fastball RH with a good curve and recent injuries...big pile of meh for what the Cubs seem to want to try to do. How legit could a Z to the Marlins idea really be anyway?

It is when they can probably do better, even if it's not immediately. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. CJ Wilson is the kind of arm I'd say that about, not Ricky Nolasco.

He's making $9m next year and 11.5 in 2013, and I'm pretty sure people were thinking the Cubs would offer cash to offset. It's hardly outlandish, especially if they want to have some names around to help sell the new stadium. 20.5 more reasons not to bother right there.

Hes hurt by being short, RH, and at 20 a tad bit older than his competition.

That's still roughly a 3.something WAR pitcher a year. What's so impressive about that considering Wells/Dempster/Z are all capable of that in a given year? They should be looking to upgrade the FRONT of the rotation, not the middle or back. He's not so much better than our other midrotation options that they should fall over themselves to land him. If you want to buy low on a Marlin this offseason it should be Morrison.

what do you supposed the payday will be? A Jared Weave type deal? If so I am in I think he and Garza would be an excellent top of the rotation. I'm thinking something higher but not crazy higher than the Zambrano deal.

And the previous two Randy Wells seasons where he put up roughly 6.5 WAR? now insignificant? Why is Nolascos poor performance excused despite pitching in a huge park known to suppress HRs and boost K rates anyway? To me overpaying for a midrotation guy right now is the exact thing the Cubs should not be doing. The Cubs right now have 3 guys who profile as 3-4 types with Wells, Dempster, and Z. I don't see the point of picking up another one. While that rotation would be pretty damn good, it's not dominant. I say look to add Wilson and prep for the 2013 and 2014 pitching FAs and trade market.

The Cubs already have one of those types in Randy Wells. They should be looking to do better than that.

Don't forget Matt Kemp...'06-'07 he was mostly a RF...'08 he starts playing more CF but still played 60+ games in RF...'09-'11 he spends most of his time in CF with a handful of RF starts and maybe a DH start or two.

My fellow hardcore Jet fans are all trying to unbunch their panties right now. It's not that big a deal. The only thing that makes me mad about this week is that we had to travel to Oakland for the millionth straight season. I don't get how that one seems to find it's way on the Jets' schedule. Darren McFadden looks legit. He's added some mass to his lower body since his chicken leg college days, and the speed is still there. I hope the Colts pull it off tonight.

Kemp won his playing 158 games in '09 at 24. Palmeiro did it as a 35 year old with a longstanding reputation. Yes, the award itself is mostly BS, but lets not pretend Palmeiro and Kemp are anywhere near similar cases. Fair enough. To me the more interesting debate would have been Kemp vs. Upton as a long term investment anyway....but another time when it's more of a real possibility maybe.

If I can't dance around that then you can't dance around the idea that it's very unlikely he gets asked to move in the first place. The guy won a GG in '09 as a CF at 24, and at 26 in '11 he probably had the best season of any CF in the game. Even if both of us agree that he's not great shakes as a CF and would be an excellent RF, that could be said about ANY competent CF. He's not an Andruw Jones, Van Slyke, or Mike Cameron out there in CF, but that's not going to be a good enough reason for a team to move him from CF.

What if he handled CF well enough to make that sudden move seem off? Another solution would be to keep him in CF until it's abundantly clear that he's declining, as would happen to most other high end CFs if asked to move at all.

Lol @ the Jets. What a crap performance...Good thing it's only week 3 and the Raiders are non-division.

Shenanigans, particularly in ARod's case. The other two were not in Kemp's class of athlete as major leaguers, neither worked hard to stay in defensive type shape, both had poor defensive reputations, and both were moved as many expected they would be. They were the perfect storm of circumstance that would require a positional move. An obviously inferior SS who was still one of the premier SSs in the sport, a future HOF himself, and the premier player for that franchise. Those are nothing things that describe Brett Jackson. The only one of those guys who had any right to make a stink was ARod, as both of the other two are not guys who kept themsleves in tip top shape like ARod or Kemp. Moving ARod vs. Jeter was one of the biggest controversies in NY sports at the time. I even got into debates with writers like Lupica and Vaccaro out here because it was *the* baseball topic of the '04-'05 offseason. What kind of choice did those guys have? "Hey ARod, nobody likes you already because of the dumb amount of money you make and you're entering the town of one of the best SSs to ever live. That SS has helped bring 4 rings to the Yankees, while you have none. He's also the captain of the team and arguably the most decorated Yankee since Mantle. Want his job?" "Hey Cabrera/Dunn, we know you love D almost as much as you love hitting, but you're both starting to resemble tubs of lard. You have the choice to get in shape and work on your D or take this 1B mitt." I sincerely believe the Cubs would not offer that catch at all. What reason do they have to? The numbers say he's not a great defensive CF, but he's certainly better than guys like Cabrera, Soriano (who had speed and conditioning, but nothing resembling polish to his defensive game at 2B), and Dunn were at their positions. There's no All Star/future HOF CF here sitting in his way of taking his job like there was with ARod. Not to mention that there's the chance that he really does like being an All Star CF.

I thought it was also because they already had Vidro and nowhere else to put him. That definitely to probably played into it, but Soriano had amongst the worst reputations in baseball defensively. He was never a good defensive 2B, or anything close to it really. Neither the Yankees or Rangers were two teams who really were known to care for defense in the 2000's either.

Well then keep in mind that you're the one saying I'm calling it a drastic change. I'm calling it an unlikely one. It takes extraordinary circumstance to move an in their prime established star. What if his reply to "we've got this Jackson kid doing well in CF" is "who the f is Jackson?" Why wouldn't he just pick the team who says "hey, you're kicking ass and taking names as a CF. You're a big guy so there's the chance we move you off of there late in the contract, but for now you're our CF through and through?" As far as before, I was not brushing what you said aside. I was giving context to what you said. Cabrera wasn't moved for the hell of moving him. Cabrera was moved because he refused to stay in shape and generally had crap habits as a young player that cost him the lean body he came into the league with. He has only now started cutting the crap. He also had a terrible reputation defensively. While both you and I question Kemp as a CF, he doesn't have the kind of reputation Cabrera had/has defensively. ARod was moved because the SS on the team who could afford to pick up the largest player contract in sports history happened to be the game's other premier SS, and that team's most decorated and best player since maybe as far back as Mantle. Nothing like that is fitting with the circumstance of Kemp's maybe move upon joining the Cubs.

Oh man I should have read the whole thread before replying... Pujols - Like Kemp was moved around until they found a spot where he'd stay. For Pujols that was 1B. Kemp has spent the last 3 years in CF, and hasn't really done anything else. A few games in RF and a couple times DHing...that's about it. Braun - Bad 3B who had few supporters there. Both Uptons were moved in the minors. Both are amongst the best defenders at their ML positions. Next list: Josh Hamilton - Done to keep him healthy. Still has played over 70 games at CF in the past two years. Carlos Beltran - Done to keep him healthy and only after his prime years. Torii Hunter - Done to keep him healthy, and only after his prime years. Vernon Wells - Done because he was no longer a very good CF and also to keep his knees healthy after years on turf. Juan Pierre - ?? Andruw Jones - Even as he ballooned in size he stayed in CF. Only when he absolutely physically couldn't handle it... Cody Ross - ?? David DeJesus - A solid enough example I guess, but has dealt with injuries and nowhere near the player Kemp is. Mike Cameron - Yeah, no one touched Mike Cameron in CF until his mid-late 30's. Corey Patterson - ?? ?? = Who cares, they weren't all that good anyway. Moved from starter to bench before they started moving positions IIRC. CR - As far as Jackson definitely being a better ML CF than Kemp...That's another one I wish the Cubs luck in explaining to Kemp and his reps. Jackson would have to be downright special in CF to hold off an in his prime AS CF.

Yes but he moved bc no one thought he was a good 2B defensively. He was a reeeeeaaaaallllyy obviously bad 2B.

Cabrera ate and drank himself off of 3B. ARod moved for a fellow future HOF. Dunn shouldn't even be in the conversation. Anyway, who would the Cubs be moving Kemp to RF for? Brett Jackson? Put yourself in Kemps shoes and ask why he'd do that for some rookie/2nd year? Money? Money wont be a problem because anyone pursuing him will know they have to pay for him.

At least Bryan LaHair hasn't proven that he can't hit big league pitching yet. I found some further hope for LaHair today. Shelley Duncan has gotten PAs and ABs...almost 500 of them...over the past couple of years with the Indians.