Mark_R

I would say he has a chance to be decent in Baltimore but not in Chicago. And why is that? And why is Von Joshua (a well respected hitting figure here) saying Corey has regressed as a hitter?

Good for him. I'd be glad he's doing well.

I understand your "let's wait and see if he can get more" argument. I guess my question is how much do you think Hendry could have gotten? I think part of his argument is that the Cubs paint themselves into the corner where everybody knows they HAVE to deal certain players and brings down their value even more. I agree that this is a problem and the Sosa deal was pretty much a sham. Regardless, even without that knowledge, I don't think they could have gotten much more than they did. He's not making 350 K anymore.

How long do we have to give Corey to "raise" his trade value then? If we don't have upgrade the OF, then people complain (and rightfully so) that adjustments weren't made to better the miserable oh five team. I don't see the improvements coming while he's in Chicago, so he's a semi expensive unproductive everyday player, or he's an expensive bench player who can't raise his value anyway. And if Corey has a bad April and the fans are just riding his ass, what do you do?

Leverage, what leverage? As Bruce Miles stated on this forum just a few days ago Corey was not a hot name at all throughout the baseball world. Well, you've made the point for me. He had no leverage. At all. Thus, it makes more sense to gamble into creating some leverage through 1) better play at the ML level; 2) better play at AAA; or 3) need created though injury in ST or the first part of the season. Negotiating is all about leverage. Trading players without any is just stupid when you know a player has talent (e.g. Corey). If it were some clown like Macias, when you are unlikely to get anything more than you've seen over his stay with the Cubs, then the likelihood of gaining leverage is low if not non-existent. But, that isn't the case with Corey. It is bad negotiating, pure and simple. It is always easier to make comments like this after the fact. Why, pray tell, is that the case? I have been anticipating this lackluster move (as have many) since October. Hendry moved Sammy at his lowest value (and, in fact, contributed to lowering his value). Hendry is more interested in a clean clubhouse rather than addressing messes that he had his hand in manufacturing. Don't try to diminish my point by making me appear as if I am only preying on hindsight. It doesn't take a clariavoyant or baseball executive to derive the opinion that this was a trade in which Hendry would be hard pressed to get less value at a later date. I am 100% certain that Hendry at some level decided to move Patterson prior to the Convention so as not to repeat the 05 Sosa debacle. His moves regularly have a tinge of panic to them as of late. When should we have moved Corey then? On the flipside, how long do you give a guy before you finally decide, this is enough, lets go in a new direction? I'm not gonna disagree that management's handling of Corey has been pretty bad, but at some point, he has got to start taking responsibility himself as well for his porous play. The options for 06 were to either Non-tender him, deal him for nothing, or have a very expensive bench player who isn't going to get any better on the bench. Hendry was between a rock and a hard place here. Now if I hear we're paying some of his salary for next season, I'll be miffed.

Jon, realistically, what should the Cubs have done during the course of Corey's awfulness during the season? And honestly, how many chances do we have to give a guy before we realize its not going to work out here?

They interupted Rex Grossman for THIS!?

two a ball players Carlos Perez and I didn't catch the other name.

Their two best players, Alando Tucker and Kammron Taylor, are from out of state. Taylor is from Minneapolis, MN and Alando Tucker is from Lockport, IL (Far SW Burb of Chicago). Also, look at their recruting class: Mickey Perry and DeAaron Williams both from Illinois. Its nice that Bo is picking up the pieces in Illinois. Perry is a great athlete and a fine shooter. Solid college (not pro caliber) player. Admittedly I don't know much about Williams.

Holy cow that is crazy.

CP, it would be for how you would pick them in a matchup with other conferences. Tucker's numbers are pretty solid. Nearly 19 and 5 a game while shooting 45 percent from the field (gotta improve from behind the arc and at the charity stripe though).

Big Ten All Star team: Davis Killingsworth Tucker Ager Dee Brown Shannon Brown Augustine Grier Brunner Taylor DJ White Vukusic Anybody have anything different?

Could this move to the lineup for Gordon be a showcase for him in a deal?

you can always count on quin for one thing: bad analysis during the NCAA tourneys (since he's never there, duh). Good Grief.

I look at it from another perspective. Say he's projected pre combine (which probably won't help him because he's not a "speed" back) to be in the top 15-20. The guaranteed money for that spot is roughly 10 million dollars. Also bearing in mind that there's 3 possibly 4 RB's who will be taken ahead of him: Bush, Williams, Maroney, and possibly Calhoun. He could come back for his senior season and be THE focal point of that offense and put up incredible numbers possibly boosting himself into the top 5 (AD is coming out next year, so he'd probably be the second back taken), which comes with nearly 30 million in guaranteed money. Its a very fine line. Perhaps its just the contrarian in me that thinks of this scenario. One thing White has going for him is that he has a pretty low amount of carries on his wheels and that could be a VERY attractive attribute for a team.

The inferiority complex is a result of the "three peat talk" that I hear all the time. If you silly LSU fans keep discussing about not acknowledging the fact that it was a SPLIT CHAMPIONSHIP, I have no idea how else to describe your bitching. And the Trojans lost. Sure showed me! God, they played like crap, I can't believe I was rooting for a team who would get embarassed like that! For the record, I love watching USC play. Why? Because they are fun as hell to watch. And they get lots of national games since they're so awesome.

Quick quiz... which QB finished #2 in all of college football in QB rating, completed 64% of his passes for almost 2800 yards and a 9.7 yard per attempt average, with a 26-10 TD-INT ratio? Then went out and completed 75% of his passes for 268 yards in the biggest bowl game in recent memory? If you guessed Vince Young, you win. Say what you will about his mechanics, but it's hard to argue against that kind of success, and the fact that he has had some of his biggest games against highly ranked opponents. I wish I could bump the thread from earlier in the year in which I was supporting him for Heisman and defending his passing ability, but since I can't - nya nya I told y'all so. :lol: There's a lot of great QB's who put up great college numbers that suck in the pros. Most of them suffer because they don't have a great arm, a great release, or great decision making. I think in the NFL, all three of these will be exploited.

So would I. I want no part of Vince Young. Unless he learns how to throw. Because his throws in the pros will get picked or get his WR's killed.

He was great, Coach, no doubt about it. But by blitzing from the weakside, you are just playing into his strength.

Young in the last drive: Incomplete pass to the left 2 yard loss pass to the left 7 yard pass to the right (5 yard penalty) 9 yard pass to the middle 7 yard VY Run Right 16 yard pass to the right Incomplete to the right 5 yard VY Run Right Incomplete pass to the middle 9 yard VY Run Right TD. Notice where the yards were gain, Pom Pon. This is truly indicative of how the game was lost. Awful scheming with weak side blitzes

Carroll really cost his team with improper preparation for VY's rushing and offensive tendencies.

Fourth quarter observations on Pete Carroll's shoddy defense: I thought Dan Fouts brought up a real good point during the game about Vince Young running to the right. As I recall, that's how Young was beating the Trojans in the fourth quarter. Thus, I did not understand Carroll's defensive scheming against Young: I wanted to see more strong side blitzing because Young is much more effective when he runs to the side in which there is a throw as an option. If you blitz from the strong side against the extra blocker, you bring Young out of his element of running behind blockers and an open field ahead of him. If you're bringing the pressure from that side and leaving your DB's to the weak side in single coverage, you're fine. Young doesn't have the arm to make the run to the left and then throw across his body to hit his receivers. It would have thrown Vince out of his comfort zone and would have taken some incredible plays (as it did anyway) to beat a defense that would work greatly against his strengths. I don't think he would have pulled it off had Carroll recognized how Vince was beating them down the stretch. The pressure would come from the weak side while the DB's are playing in coverage on the strong side and by the time Young gets into the open field, he really hasn't had to alude tacklers in order to make the run more difficult. It was very poor scheming down the stretch as Carroll was playing into Vince's strength. Young in the last drive: Incomplete pass to the left 2 yard loss pass to the left 7 yard pass to the right (5 yard penalty) 9 yard pass to the middle 7 yard VY Run Right 16 yard pass to the right Incomplete to the right 5 yard VY Run Right Incomplete pass to the middle 9 yard VY Run Right TD. Notice where the yards were gain, Pom Pon.

Lee Corso advocated taking Young number one. Wow.

Great thread tonight, too. Great QB debate. I LOVED IT. Some games fail to live up to the hype. This greatly exceeded it.

So who would you draft with the number two pick? Remember, you're the Saints and no one likes your franchise. And you have no face of the franchise. Trade down. Who do you take after you trade down? There has to be some agenda to it.