CubfaninCA

Wilson the last couple years was very similar to Corey's career numbers. He doesn't get on base, and that's the single biggest problem with this team. He's overpaid due to some early success and overhype. He would not help this team one bit. The negatives about Wilson have been listed repeatedly. Why is obp such a necessity in the 6 hole, if you're getting really good obp from 1-5 and Murton and Barrett are pretty good?? With the options out there, Wilson is not bad at all. I take it you don't want Pie or Patterson in cf. The lists of really good OF's isn't very deep after Giles, and the Cubs don't have a lot of assets to trade away for good OF's. Their farm system is not stocked w/ future superstars.

I don't see it happening, but if the Cubs did sign Preston Wilson why would it be such an awful pickup, especially if they add Castillo, Bradley and Furcal?? I know some like to romanticize about Giles and a lineup w/ all .360+ obpers, but this is unrealistic. Wilson would fit in well as a 6 hitter. His ops from last year was only 10 point off 5 place for cf's. Furcal, Castillo, Lee, ARam, Bradley, Wilson, Murton & Barrett is a playoff lineup, IF the pitching is healthy. If the pitching isn't healthy, this club is done even if they get Giles.

Guess this should go here, as it pertains to Kenny Williams. One move that really panned out for Kenny was the acquisition of Jermaine Dye, who's 6th in ops amongst rf's and who had an ops that was 90 points greater than Burnitz. Nice pickup for 2 years and 10 mil.

If that's all we do, we won't have Giles in RF for 2006. That will need to be a player option to even come close to getting it done. How about 3/39 with a vesting option based on plate appearances? what does everyone else think bout that?I have asserted for a long time now that without a guaranteed fourth year we don't get him off the west coast. I agree. It will take a guaranteed four years and at least 12 million a year to get him. Anyone who suggests less hasn't paid attention to what the guys signed for last year. There will be as many teams with money this year as there were last year and fewer quality free agents. The floor fr Giles is 4/48. I'd go 4/52 or 5/60. Vance, he's still Brian Giles, and not Babe Ruth. He'll be 35 this year and you would lock him up at 12 mill per through his 40th b-day? Unless his name is Bonds or Clemens I ain't doing that. I know the wisdom is that it will take 4 guaranteed to het him off the coast, but if its me, I offer 3yrs at 11 mill per, with an option for a fourth that includes a hefty raise. Give him the cash when you know (or have evidence to suggest) that he will be most productive. His family's in SD though and the Cubs are coming off a subpar season. They'll have to do some major wooing, and most likely overpay, which makes signing Giles quite a longshot.

They didn't try to address obp when they traded for Lawton?? Nomar & Walker being hurt so much messed up the top of the order for most of the season. Then when they got both back ARam went down and they had to bat Nomar 4th or 5th. Patterson being beyond brutal was a killer as well. I doubt anyone foresaw a .254 obp. .330 was more likely. Come back w/ Nomar & Walker again and they're probably in the same boat by May. However, I think Hendry won't go this route again and get burnt twice. He'll go hard after Furcal. Hendry's not as clueless as some like to portray here. What can you do when Nomar/WAlker/ARam miss 200 games and Patterson implodes.

Better find a way to get Marcus Giles then. Brian Giles is a pretty big longshot.

Things generally happen for teams when they get people on base or successfully steal, regardless who it is. What matters when judging the individual player is the rate at which he does those things successfully. Not at all. That drags the conversation back to looking only at stats again. The whole point was that invidual stats like AVG/OBP/OPS don't tell the whole story in all cases. [edit]The end-game point being that a measuring a player's wroth to his team can't always be ascertained in the indivudal stat column. Win Shares aren't out yet for 2005 that I can find, but it is kind of like trying to evaluate at that level.[/edit] AVG/OBP/SLG does not tell the whole story, but it tells a whole lot more than the romanticists who like perpetuating the myth of intangibles. Is romanticists an acceptable label here?? I hope so. I like it. :)

Hoops has Jerome Williams name come up in this rumor?? Now if he went to LA, I can see more of a possibility. Jmo but DePo will probably get torn apart if all he gets is Lowell and a prospect. At least Williams has big league experience. If Bradley is dealt to the Cubs, get ready for Murton in LF, Pie in CF and Bradley in RF.

If Williams was a Beane disciple, I have a feeling he'd be getting alot more praise considering his $75 million budget. Williams went the one direction you have to go when you have a middle of the pack budget. He stockpiled pitching. I don't like the White Sox, but can respect how they play the game. They play w/ lots of emotion. Anaheim had a collective whooped dog look in Game's 4 and 5. Kinda reminded me of the Cubs for all of 2005. Hendry needs to shake things up because I doubt Baker can get the same group of guys fired up in 2006. The same group would most likely crumble out of the gate. Nomar, Kerry Wood, Patterson and Walker aren't much of a backbone.

I just don't see the Cubs trading for Bradley or LA trading Lowe. Lowe had a really good 2nd half and that rotation isn't too deep. They'll probably lose Weaver, Perez hates the lack of offensive support and Edwin Jackson imploded.

I don't think it has anything to do with team chemistry or "playing their butts off". It's their pitching. And it definitely has nothing to do with Ozzie-ball or smallball like all White Sox fans and idiots on ESPN seem to think. So they win despite Ozzie?? EDIT: I have to say that anyone who thinks chemistry and playing your butt off is irrelevant knows very little about sports. Even without Colon, the Angels have good pitching too.

Doubtful. The Cubs have declined since 2003. I can't see them playing ballz out for Dusty, the way the White Sox play for Ozzie.

Williams has brought in a deep starting rotation, but the offense is far from impressvie. The Cubs have a better obp average and they don't have a DH. Did anyone see this team being really good this year?? I have to tip my hat to Ozzie. This team defiinitely plays their butt's off and has chemistry.

vance, There's no telling w/ the McCourts. They seem like snakes. Apparently, he promised to field a $100 million payroll a few years and they haven't come close. I wouldn't be surprised to see them keep payroll stable. However, they really raked in the money this year. Iirc they were 2nd in attendance behind the Yankees. Perhaps he'll up pay. Doubt it though. LA may have another Donald Sterling, but the media may not let him get away w/ being cheap. The LA Times and local radio stations have pounded the McCourt's relentlessly. Unlike the Clippers, they don't have the Lakers to take the pressure off. The Angels won't take pressure off. Anaheim/Orange County & LA are two different areas altogether.

The problem w/ that is the Cubs putting out the most money. I'd handicap it as.... 1) SD & Anaheim ~ He's been w/SD and family's in SD. Anaheim's near family, they need a bat like Giles, they spend lots of money and they win. 3) Boston ~ They win, value Giles and spend LOTS of money. 4) LA ~ They're near family and DePo values Giles. However, the McCourt's are in the process of running the franchise into the ground. 5) St. Louis ~ They win & spend a substantial amount of money. He could replace Larry Walker. 6) Houston ~ They win & really need someone like Giles, but probably a long shot.

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs? Well, Boston probably values Giles more, and they spend more money than the Cubs. Also, they won the World Series last year and made the playoffs this year. Houston & St. Louis have made the playoffs the last 2 years as well. Like I said, if the Cubs had made the playoffs this year, they may have a better chance. Unless Boston trades Nixon or Manny, they won't be going after Giles. It sounds like Manny's gone. I keep hearing Manny to the Mets.

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs? They win? But what does that have to do with family? Nobody has bid on anybody yet. Only SD can talk to Giles. Nobody is ahead of anybody else. The Cubs can get him if they want him. It's insane to talk about the impossibility of signing him. I'm just saying that if Giles rules out the home thing that winning teams would be the next thing on the list unless cash is the most important thing to him. Bingo. He may take a discount to play for a winner. However, I still think Anaheim makes the most sense, if he's willing to play LF and Anderson's cool w/ being a DH.

If family/location is the big concern, how could Boston, Houston or STL be ahead of the Cubs? Well, Boston probably values Giles more, and they spend more money than the Cubs. Also, they won the World Series last year and made the playoffs this year. Houston & St. Louis have made the playoffs the last 2 years as well. Like I said, if the Cubs had made the playoffs this year, they may have a better chance.

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)? That's a concern too. Just want to get 3 (both Giles & Chipper) for 2 (ARam & Walker or CPatt). People who think the Cubs have any shot @ B. Giles w/out some major change are dreaming. Am kinda doubtful the Cubs could get M. Giles w/out giving up a major asset. Thus my proposed deal. The only way that Giles is a pipedream is if Hendry doesn't go hard after him. Anybody can be had. Hendry needs to move either the Pacific Ocean or Giles' family to Chicago, or greatly overpay him. The only possibility of those 3 is moving his family (Marcus) to Chicago. I haven't heard anything about Mark Cuban buying the Cubs from the Trib, and SD, LA, Anaheim, Boston, Houston and St. Louis are probably all ahead of the Cubs in the bidding war. Maybe there would be a better chance if the Cubs had won 90 games this year.

Plus the related concern of durability, as well. I think you'll see that improve this offseason. Does he have a personal trainer? He's training with Bonds this off season. :wink: I'd love to hear that Ramirez is going to improve his conditioning which imo would help his durability. I believe Mark O'Neal has been quoted as saying that someone will be working with both Z and ARam this winter, on diet, stretching and conditioning. Am assuming they had someone working w/ them last year too. Hence I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Why no concern with Chipper's fragile body? If durability and the perception that laziness leads to the injuries causes you to want to deal Ramirez, how can then turn around and acquire a guy coming off 2 straight injury marred seasons (who happens to cost much more than the guy you'd be replacing)? That's a concern too. Just want to get 3 (both Giles & Chipper) for 2 (ARam & Walker or CPatt). People who think the Cubs have any shot @ B. Giles w/out some major change are dreaming. Am kinda doubtful the Cubs could get M. Giles w/out giving up a major asset. Thus my proposed deal.

Don't you realize if we traded for Jones and Giles, the Braves would have more than enough money to keep Furcal? Also, if we trade for Jones (17 million) and Giles (5 million est), then we likely couldn't afford to go hard after Furcal. Trading for Giles is a smart move. Trading for Jones to play left isn't a bad move. Trading Ramirez for Jones, even if it includes Giles, is idiocy. Yep, realize that, but they may still opt for Betemit and put money into pitching. My main rationale would be improving leverage to get Brian Giles.

A guy w/ durability issues in his mid-20's is a concern, and saying you'll commit to a conditioning program and doing it are two different things. Perhaps this is what the Score is referring to when they say "Ramirez has worn out his welcome??" As for Jones & Giles, Jones is a perennial .400 obp guy, which Ramirez isn't, and a lefthanded bat. Giles is an upgrade @ 2b and Dusty may be more likely to use him correctly (bat his 2nd instead of 6th like Walker). Also, w/ Giles aboard, Brian Giles may actually show some interest in the Cubs and it may give the Cubs more leverage w/ Furcal. Get Jones, both Giles and Furcal and the Cubs upgrade their infield defense and can afford to go w/ Murton & Pie in LF and CF. Pie doesn't have to be a obp monster batting 7th. Lineup ~ Furcal, M. Giles, B. Giles, Lee, Jones, Murton, Pie, Barrett. Odds of happening 1 in 1000000000000000000. :)

If we were to get Giles, what would the Braves want back? Would they want Walker? Would they rather go cheap with Marte and Betemit and second and third? If they dont want Walker then we need to flip him to a team who needs a second baseman either for something to go to the braves or for bullpen help. Teams that need second basemen: Twins (is the FO different from the guys who ruined Walker's career from giving him the unfair defensively incompetent stigma) Mets I cant really think of anyone else. Seems like Atl will want major bullpen help and some budget relief. This has been discussed in other threads, but they may want to move Chipper Jones. Perhaps they'd take Ramirez in a trade and the Cubs could use Walker and/or Patterson to help them acquire some pen help. There has been talk of them moving Marte to LF... The Cubs could acquire Giles and Chipper.

Plus the related concern of durability, as well. I think you'll see that improve this offseason. Does he have a personal trainer?