Gmoney23

The Cubs made the right moves (non-developmental portion ... that's a whole different bag) ... and often times, it just didn't work out. I mean, almost all their major moves have been reasonable. The Heyward signing - made sense (it's sort of sad to think that the Heyward signing might end up being the downfall of this core in some respects, with the contract hanging over things, but it doesn't change the fact that at the time, it made sense, and when they got Fowler back, it was the cherry on top). Darvish was considered a mild discount, IIRC. I disliked the Quintana trade because of who we gave up, but the value was fine and I understood it, considering Quintana's performance and contract.

 

About the only major trade you could possibly quibble on value would be the Aroldis and Gleyber trade, but okay, they thought the addition of Aroldis was the difference to winning a title, and hey we won a title. That doesn't necessarily justify moves, but you live with it when you get a title instead of running through hypothetical scenarios.

 

Sometimes moves just don't work out. As fun as the Padres moves have been, unless they get Scherzer on the cheap (which there fans seem to think, I have my doubts that the Nationals gave him up without getting a top shelf prospect), they've really torn down the system for this one run.

I dont remember the exact details but if I remember right Theo preferred Verlander (PTR just didnt want to pay the remaining contract for Verlander).

The kick in the nuts is not only does Verlander potentially give the Cubs enough to get into another World Series. He reportedly wasnt going to cost them much in prospects. Couldve kept Eloy or moved him for another good piece.

Yeah, Trueblood was trying to push a similar narrative earlier this week and it doesn't land. On top of what jersey said, since 2015 the Cubs are 3rd in MLB in wins, including more than the Yankees, who were Trueblood's 'consistent excellence' barometer they were failing to meet. The short to medium term outlook isn't as good as it could or should be, and you can blame various proportions of ownership, the front office, and luck for that. But that frustration is creating a desire for some to downplay what they actually achieved.

Yeah since 15 third most wins in baseball. Same amount LCS appearances as the Yankees. Actually won a World Series which NY & LA (as of this week) havent won. Nobody has dynastied & won 2 titles during this stretch. Goes to show how important 2016 was. Great organizations like LA, NY, and CLE are still shutout of rings during this stretch.

It sucks the waves and waves & dynasty didnt happen but hard to give Theo anything but an A for this stretch of consistent good with a few years of great baseball.

 

And this was before yesterday’s game. Setting the date to August 1st only really eliminates the first week of the season. Can’t pretend that week didn’t happen, but basically since that first week they’ve been amongst the worst 5 offenses in baseball. Still seems crazy to me with all the draft capital we spent on offense during the first few years of Theo that we ended up with a core that is collectively performing so poorly, weird season or not

The draft capital can always bust.. even before they make the majors. What is weird to me is they were sucha damn good offense from 2015 to 2017, coupled with Baez, Happ & Contreras becoming much better hitters since then (minus the 2020 eight week season) you would think the offense would be a juggernaut or at the very least pretty good.

Sad hes been banged up and not the year in year out monster that we expected.

I would still see if we can sign him longterm south of 200m because he has never had a terrible career changing injuries.

The nagging injuries KB has had seem to he more bad luck than body breaking down.

I dont necessarily miss Eloy or Cease a ton but regret we could have potentially flipped those 2 for Degrom the next season.

I think its obvious we wouldve been better off with Verlander who reportedly wouldnt have even cost Eloy & Cease (just was owed 90m I think).

Then either kept Eloy and Cease or tried to flip.them for ideally someone better than Quintana the next season.

#CancelTheSeason

Contract the Marlins & Cardinals

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luck

Dodgers seem to have a good handle on it as well.

I will say this I bet the Venn Diagram of scouts, coaches, players, and FO that dont believe in analytics & sabermetrics would overlap pretty well with the population that doesnt believe in masks & think Covid is a hoax.

No surprise that a Friedman or Epstein led franchise would take this seriously.

Is it fair to say this guy has been an average or below average pitcher each season of his career except for one good year? If it's not, I'll easily take the statement back.

Yeah not a great starter but I could see his (previous stuff) playing up as a reliever splendidly. He wouldve hit triple digits out of the pen regularly.

The big if is if that stuff will ever be back and why he looks 20 to 30 pounds lighter in a frail way.

I saw someone asked on Braves subreddit about how he looked in Spring Training volume 1 in March & nobody seemed to remember (granted that does seem like 10 years ago).

it's insane that we couldn't even addord a couple decent relievers

 

Sadly, it's not surprising at this point. It's ridiculous how horsefeathering bad the FO is at this.

Didnt we have a pretty dominant bullpen from 15 to 18? I think one year they were looking really good and got hit with a slew of injuries which led to a few blown games (maybe 18?).

Pat was speculating last night that Kimbrel might have been having trouble with his grip on the knuckle curve because of the humid and hot conditions

It seemed like he was going to the rosin/dirt after every pitch, and it looked real sticky there last night, but not sure how much he normally goes to it.

His mechanics looked terrible yesterday too. Definitely a factor with the quick summer camp.

If they suspended all players that cheat, there would be no players.

Reminds me of a former baseball player coming into a restaurant I worked at back when the Cubs were potentially looking at Dave Martinez as a manager. I think this is when they got Sveum.

Former player tells his waiter the Cubs are looking at Martinez. Waiter replies do you think the Cubs would actually bring him in when he supposedly banged Sandbergs wife. Former player responds.. if the MLB was only hiring coaches that hadnt banged Sandbergs wife they couldnt fill a coaching staff around baseball.

 

They've been in charge more than 5 years.

 

Their actual average is 84-win baseball. Which, given their financial advantages, I think a C+ is plenty generous.

 

So the Astros get a C+ this decade as well? Their losing was even more horrendous. I can take rebuids if they give 5 year stretches like the most recent, the problem is they should not need to rebuild this core already.

just a reminder the Cubs are 817-803 under Ricketts. They cut costs and corners for 5 years to do a rebuild that resulted in 4 legitimately successful seasons. That's an unacceptable ratio, especially when you factor in their dominant financial stance in their division.

I agree if its back to a rebuild that quickly. Im more pointiny to the Theo/Hoyer regime and I am quite fine with their approach ti the 2012-14 Cubs and how this core has done.

Back to a rebuild so quick without the core even getting out of their rookie contracta will be utter [expletive] though.

5 years of 94 win baseball, 4 years in the crapshoot and winning the crapshoot is a C+?

 

Im extemely happy with the last 5 years... where ill be pissed is if they cant resign most or the core after their rookie deals. The tank and the years of cost-controlled assets were supposedly savings designed to allow us to flex our muscle when it came time to pay these guys.

 

They've been in charge more than 5 years.

 

Their actual average is 84-win baseball. Which, given their financial advantages, I think a C+ is plenty generous.

So the Astros get a C+ this decade as well? Their losing was even more horrendous. I can take rebuids if they give 5 year stretches like the most recent, the problem is they should not need to rebuild this core already.

Reminder that playoffs are crapshoots and that winning a WS is incredibly important to how much fun we had but irrelevant to measuring the quality of the front office’s performance.

 

categorizing 2015, 16, 17, and 18 all as "mission accomplished" doesn't exactly make things look a whole lot worse.

 

and the WS isn't entirely irrelevant insofar as it was ostensibly (at least partially) a result of being good enough to make it in over and over...even if it was in year 2 of that stretch.

 

Three years of tanking, four years of making it, back to mediocrity.

 

With their payroll advantages, that’s like a C+

5 years of 94 win baseball, 4 years in the crapshoot and winning the crapshoot is a C+?

Im extemely happy with the last 5 years... where ill be pissed is if they cant resign most or the core after their rookie deals. The tank and the years of cost-controlled assets were supposedly savings designed to allow us to flex our muscle when it came time to pay these guys.

My blow it up the budget is coming offseason:

 

Baez to the Angels for Jo Adell

Bryant to the Braves for Fried, Anderson, Waters, Wilson, and Wright

Contreras to the Mets for Ronny Mauricio

Schwarber to the Indians for Triston McKenzie and Bradley Zimmer

Quintana to the Marlins for low minors prospects

 

FAs: Russell Martin ©, Cesar Hernandez (2B), Jose Peraza (SS), various MiL deals to pitchers

 

C: Martin/Caratini (~$4-5 million tops)

1B: Rizzo (still cheap, but getting suspiciously older should have been looking for outs two years ago)

2B: Hernandez/Hoerner/Happ ($4-5 million tops)

SS: Peraza/Hoerner ($3 million tops)

3B: Bote ($3 million)

 

RF: Heyward (most of the cap space)/Zagunis/Happ

CF: Happ/Hoerner (~$2 million?)

LF: Zimmer/Happ/Zagunis

 

Hendricks

Lester

Darvish

Fried

Wright

 

There's quite a bit of money and assets spent on these 5 + Kimbrel and Chatwood, can't say the Cubs aren't trying. The great thing is that if this team isn't competing at the deadline it shouldn't be hard to trade Kimbrel, Hendricks, or even Chatwood. Maybe even Morrow can nab a top 100 guy if healthy. Unfortunately Darvish's contract might have the Cubs stuck, definitely same with Lester

 

Kimbrel

Chatwood

Wick

Ryan

Morrow

????

????

???

????

 

Give this team a couple years and they'll be just as loaded as the 2015 team was if not a little more. For the time being the org regains it's famed flexibility, replenishes a farm that is now among the best in baseball with room to get better through a deadline clean, might gain even more cap space if they ask politely for Lester to voluntarily retire, and yeah basically be one of the best teams in baseball again by 2022 or so

This is a pretty good let the MF’er burn the hell down for a few years plan. Certainly no half measures, which probably is a good thing. Pick a lane go full measures instead of being stuck in the middle.

I dont get the blow it up plans. The whole tanking till 2015 was to build a core (supposedly save $ during the tank) then use that saved $ to pay that badass core. So when this team thats averaged 94 wins.per season cost controlled core comes to FA finally then its time.for Ricketts to payup..

I think it’s pretty clear there is a culture issue with this team. All the players have to get that “how are we going to blow this?” feeling every single game.

So the culture of the last five years is gone, replaced by a 5 game stretch? This is miserable/morbidly entertaining, but get the horsefeathers out of here with this big picture meatball stuff.

 

the last 5 years have been good? I see 3 good to great years sandwiched in between 5 years of dog horsefeathers.

What in the hell are you talking about.. i see 4 years with a 95 win avg, a world series, and an injury riddled shitty season that we were in the division/playoff race all year.

We wont need a closer for a couple years anyways, but I wish we could have a dominant team with a dominant Marmol as closer.

But, I also still wish of a dominant Cubs team with Wood, Prior, Z, Guzman, and Rich Harden as our top 5 Aces :(

Ex Girlfriend was bitching about a jumbotron going up and saying she was sick thinking of it, and she said true fans shouldn't stand for this.

I asked her who the Cubs 1st basemen this year is?

She looked at me like this...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EobjuTkjO-w/ToIyBMPz-hI/AAAAAAAAAQY/aiumiwosOkU/s1600/bert.jpg

Guess I'm not a true fan cause I wouldn't hate a jumbotron!

Maybe some of you wizards can help find the game!

I was 3 or 4 years old, so 93 or 94, and it was a cold april maybe early may double header against the expo's. I think the Cubs split the doubleheader.

Also I distinctly one of the next games I was ever at was 95, in the old Busch stadium. Steve Bueschelle (I might have butchered the spelling) hit a home run, and it was the day of or like the day after the Bulls got Dennis Rodman in that offseason. I remember watching Dumb and Dumber in the hotel with my Dad and Uncle, laughing my ass of, and I remember being mad the Bulls got Rodman (I insisted he was gay cause he wore womens clothes). I was 5, so what else would I think!

Kind of off topic but what does everyone think of this new Rays stadium and our they exactly building it?

It looks like there is barely any seats in the bleachers?