scarey

I don't think you can argue that high OBP players don't get paid anymore. Dunn is not getting attention on the market like many older players are. Backtobanks made a great point about how you people seem to think too many GMs in baseball are incapable of running their position... but there's a reason they're there right? And there has to be a reason Dunn isn't really on the top of anyone's list, right? Not true. On average a good batter is going to do worse when a good pitcher is throwing the ball, I can't argue that. But Soriano has disappeared during the last two post seasons. Not just bad, but horrid: .343 OPS in 2007 and .142 OPS in 2008. He was absolutely taken advantage of. The Dunn post-season comments on my behalf were a regrettable error. Not thinking, I was making comments on Dunn's post season appearance with the Diamondbacks this year... which obviously didn't happen. One last comment. I see a lot of people that make assumptions that because a person doesn't like the way Dunn plays the game, they do not value OBP. It's not all about not liking OBP and really more about making contact on some ABs where he strikes out. Sure, taking the walk is great in virtually every situation, but striking out gives you ZERO chance to keep the inning going. The guy gives himself zero chance way too much when all it would take is cutting his swing down to make contact.

I can't tell if you guys just don't realize it or if you purposely go out of your way to twist words to make a person's argument irrelevant. I knew exactly what he meant by the Dunn v. Soriano comparison. He didn't mean they both have a low average and high OBP. He didn't mean they're both selective on pitches. He didn't mean any of that and I'm pretty sure you know it but you're going to make it out like that's what he meant because you want to paint the scene as if he knows nothing. Clapp compared the two in the fact that THEY DON'T GET THE JOB DONE WHEN NEEDED. Soriano has shown us when he's been with the Cubs that he can take advantage of mediocre pitching to drive up his numbers and when he is faced with high caliber talent he creates outs. Now, I can't tell you if it's true or not, but I'm thinking you can't either. Cubsclapp seems to have seen Dunn more than we have and mentioned his stint in the playoffs this year which sounds eerily familiar to what we have seen from Soriano. It sounds to me like he's had the opportunity to make the assessment. You can look at a guy's numbers as much as you want, but you still can't get the full story. We saw it with Soriano for crying out loud. I just want you guys to figure out that it may not be the best idea to blindly defend the guy. I think this quote sums up what I'm seeing here. So everyone else in the business of baseball is wrong, but this hodge-podge group of forumites is right? With all due respect, give me a break.

Personally, I don't want to rely on JUST ARam, or Soto, or whoever bats behind Dunn to take care of business. I would rather have a guy that can get the run in from second or third base in front of ARam/Soto/whoever. That way we get two very good chances and no mater what number you guys put up, you can't argue that.

BTW, I forgot to explain this concept. When you have a man on third, I think you have a limited amount of opportunities to score him. So the idea that "not making an out" is actually backwards in this situation because it's really just a failed opportunity to score the runner. Given that on a league average basis, about 2/3 of plate appearances result in outs, I just believe that scoring a runner on third base in any opportunity you're given is paramount. Anything less is pretty much failure... unless a Neifi type player walks to set up a Aramis type player at the plate.

Not making an out is getting the job done. Welcome to the forum. While I thank you for the welcome (I have been lurking for years btw), I have to respectfully disagree. Also, I wish you would go into more details then just the one line answer, especially given the justifications for why it's not getting the job done I have given. The thinking behind "Not making an out is getting the job done" is that the more guys you get on base the more likely you are to not only score, but also have a big inning - i.e. "put up a crooked number." Each team has a limited number of outs with which to score more runs than the other team, so a player who doesn't use up a many of those outs is valuable. Also, most of a pitcher's desire to have Dunn on base is not because he's slow - it's because any pitch at all can end up in the seats. He doesn't hit for a very good average, but Dunn can slug with the best of hitters. Of coarse Dunn can slug well, but pitchers make the decision to try for a two out opportunity rather then give him that opportunity (which with Dunn, a two out opportunity is relatively higher then many other players in the league). Now, assuming he bats between ARam and Lee and there's a runner on third, there's going to be a good opportunity after Dunn walks because ARam has a substantially better average with RISP. However, that sets up a two out opportunity for the pitcher and the only way Dunn on first base helps directly in his AB is if ARam hits a long ball or in a very very long shot a ball is hit in a place where Dunn is able to score from first... which both are not very likely in this situation unlikely. The thing is, you can't rely on your whole lineup to walk to set up opportunities because the law of averages is working against you, even with a team that was so good at getting on base as the Cubs. I am a big believer in OBP as a general concept, but in this specific situation when you have a player of the caliber and renown of Dunn, you need him to drive in your runs instead of extending your possibility for creating an out.

Not making an out is getting the job done. Welcome to the forum. While I thank you for the welcome (I have been lurking for years btw), I have to respectfully disagree. Also, I wish you would go into more details then just the one line answer, especially given the justifications for why it's not getting the job done I have given.

To all of you Adam Dunn fans, this is why I don't think Dunn is a worthwhile option (not including defensive reasons). Career batting average with runners in scoring position: .225 Now, I know you're going to say, "but, his OBP in that situation is .416". To that, I just want to argue that getting on base in a RISP situation is not always getting the job done. For one thing, Dunn is supposed to be the type of player that drives those runners in. We could find plenty of other guys that occupy first base after we get a runner on 3rd, but I want a person that can drive the runner in. Maybe I'm being picky, but that's just what I want. Also, Adam Dunn is a slow and less then adequate base runner. Do you think there's a reason he has a high OBP with runners in scoring position? I'll give you a clue, if you take away the IBB when he's in that situation his OBP drops from .416 to .354. While that's better then average, I wouldn't say it's impressive. This doesn't even include all the "unintentional" IBB. People WANT him on base in a RISP situation (unless of coarse it moves another person into scoring position). The guy is a walking double play on first base.