RedVerbs

Cardinals do have contracts coming off at the end of this season (Pineiro, Glaus, Derosa, Greene) and they have in house replacements too.

Well, Church is left handed, and can actually take a walk every once and a while, and he hasn't completely lost all his power the last two seasons.

Wow. What a dumb trade by Minaya.

Uh, no, I am not. How exactly am I a "homer". To be fair there were a bunch of moronic Cub fans spouting the same idiocy. All right, maybe a little homering :D , except for that last quote. That isn't homering, that's just reality.

If he says he doesn't want an extension his value becomes really high. Santana would only agree to a trade if there was an extension in place, Halladay still has one year at $15 mil on his contract. In this market that's pretty reasonable for a pitcher of his quality. There's lots of pitchers making more than that who aren't even close ot the caliber that Roy Halladay is. But if he demands an extension his price is not just going to be the $15 mil next year, but probably $18 mil+ for the next 4-5 years minimum I would assume. That's when you start giviing up one prospect and some toss ins like the Santana deal. otherwise, that speculated Angels offer is probably the kind of level teams would need to go to get him I don't know, man. Halladay has been absolute money for about 5-7 years now. If he played in Chicago or NY, the Hall of Fame bust would already be carved. Legitimately, he should get Rasmus and Wallace from the Cards, at a minimum. Even if he doesn't come to the Cardinals, I'd like to see him traded to a playoff team, just so he can pitch in the playoffs for the first time. It would be unfortunate if the best or second best pitcher of his generation did not pitch in at least one post season game.

thank you I feel like he gives me a bad name. Get off your knees for god's sake man. Stop looking for approval. edit: And you had the audacity to question the same thing about Maybin/Rasmus? Give me a break.

Uh, no, I am not. How exactly am I a "homer". Saying I've never seen someone say Maybin has a higher ceiling? I never said he didn't, I just stated it's not something that I was familiar with. I'm sure he does, the kid looks like he's gonna be a huge power bat, for certain. You Cubs fans just so bitter about the Cardinals, so you don't give their players any recognition, aside from Albert (obviously). Rasmus is good, deal with it. Whether or not Maybin has a higher ceiling is irrelevant. Maybin's in Triple A, Rasmus is 11th in the NL in WAR. It's not magic pixie dust or whatever term you guys use as to why the Cardinals win. The players on the Cardinals do not play over their head anymore than players on other teams do. We have certainly enough crap on offense this year for you Cubbie fans to realize this (Ankiel, Duncan, Thurston). Cards fans give the Cubs their just due when they deserve it, but you guys here, nah everything is a conspiracy and magic, it can't possibly be the fact certain players are actually better than you think? Or maybe Cub players aren't nearly as good as you believe? Nah...can't be that

We're both just speculating on what the package being offered can or will be, no team has even offered a deal yet to any of our knowledge, so these are just cold guesses. His assumption is that it would take all of that. And I've read assumptions were it wouldn't even come close to that to get Halladay. We'll only know what the truth if/when Halladay is traded. If he happens to be right, then I misread Halladay's trade value, simple as that. I still don't see how it would take all of that to trade for a pitcher that'll only be your property for 1 full season and 2-3 months.

I don't recall seeing more than one rating system that had Rasmus as a top 5 prospect for 2009... The Blue Jays can ask for whatever they want being as they don't have to trade him, regardless of whether some Cardinal fan thinks they are delusional. Baseball America ranked him number 3 behind Wieter and David Price. Who said they had to trade him? All I said is if they think they are getting a Rasmus/Wallace for him, they are delusional. That isn't going to happen. No team is doing that or even come close to giving that. That would be silly. Baseball America would constitute as one rating system, not more than one... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=law_keith&id=3840355 http://mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/prospects/y2009/ http://thebaseballgods.blogspot.com/2008/12/2009-top-100-prospects-rankings-only.html (local STL homer) http://www.topprospectalert.com/ http://fantasybaseball365.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/hot-prospect-corner-mlbcoms-top-25-rookies-for-fantasy-2009/ Furthermore, even many in the STL area viewed the Baseball America ranking of Rasmus at #3 a joke given the off year in 2008 (and yes, I live in STL and know all about the injuries, etc). That is all beside the point. Here's a recent writeup ( http://scoutingthesports.com/?cat=3) discussing what the Angels would possibly need to give up to acquire Doc: Who's "OD'ing" on the kool aid? So, you think those other ranking systems hold the weight of Baseball America? LOL. Only two serious ones are Baseball America or Baseball Prospectus (Who ranked him 8th), the others are not ones I take seriously, nor do most people who don't have an agenda. And prospect rankings of him before the season aren't really relevant as the fact he has been the Rookie of the Year in the NL in 2009 so far, which you like to ignore. Being a top 10 in some random Joe Schmoes preseason rankings, does not match up with being a top 5-10 in the two most respected/established ranking and actually PERFORMING in the Majors.

You dont get it, they dont need to trade him. Its not about money. Its not about a fire sale. Its about the Jays wanting to stock themselves with these top prospects in hopes of being able to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox in the future, and Halladay is the tool to get it done. No I "get it". I never mentioned money once, I know exactly what it's about. I understand how great Halladay is, but he is a 32 year old pitcher, who has a lot of innings on his arm. Plus, you're only gonna have him for a year and a few months. I see them getting more of 1 great hitting or pitching prospect, and about 4 other "good-middling" prospects, then them getting a top 5 prospect, and another top 50 prospect. Teams nowadays do not just give up their best prospects like that. I know the circumstances are different, but Santana went to the Mets, and they gave the Twins crap, and Santana is better than Halladay.

I don't recall seeing more than one rating system that had Rasmus as a top 5 prospect for 2009... The Blue Jays can ask for whatever they want being as they don't have to trade him, regardless of whether some Cardinal fan thinks they are delusional. Baseball America ranked him number 3 behind Wieter and David Price. Who said they had to trade him? All I said is if they think they are getting a Rasmus/Wallace for him, they are delusional. That isn't going to happen. No team is doing that or even come close to giving that. That would be silly.

There isn't a team giving up a top 5 prospect that's all ready semi established in the majors at 22, plus another top 50 prospect for a 32 year old pitcher, no matter how good he is. You dudes are ODing right now. I'm not sure what the Blujays want but if its all of that, they are delusional. I highly doubt the Cards will have to add Rasmus to get Halladay. A deal centered around Wallace could get it done, or one centered around Wainwright.

I've never seen anyone say Maybin has a higher ceiling, but okay.

There really isn't much of a difference between Dempster and Lilly and Pineiro and Lohse, career wise, as starters. They are all relatively, average starters who've had 1-2 "good" seasons as starters in about 7-10 years of their careers.

Schumaker always hits over .300, I don't know why this surprises you. He's hit hit over .300 the last two seasons. yeah i forgot that his BABIP is .350 every season. He's not any good, really, but he's good for hitting .300/.350/400

Schumaker always hits over .300, I don't know why this surprises you. He's hit hit over .300 the last two seasons.

The only problem is Luhnow loves his prospects, a little too much, imo. I say 50% chance he goes to the Phillies 15% chance he goes to the Cardinals 30% chance he goes to one of the (Dodgers, Brewers, Rangers or Mets) And 5% chance he stays with the Bluejays.

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included. J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that. I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done. Agreed. Rasmus and a lower level prospect for Halladay is well more than enough. I don't think people actually comprehend how good Rasmus is, in his rookie season at 22 years of age. I wouldn't even think about trading Rasmus for any pitcher, but I would trade Wallace, Daryl Hones and anyone else they wanted in the minors for Halladay. Toronto drafted Wallace back in 2005 (But he went to college instead), so they would definitely seem to be interested in him. You guys are crazy Cardinal fans. They have Vernon Wells who is better than Rasmus right now and Rasmus is nowhere near the value of Doc, nor will he ever be. Are you joking right? Vernon Wells is one of the worst everday players in baseball right now. Rasmus OPS .823 Wells OPS .731 Rasmus adjusted OPS 117 Wells adjusted OPS 91 Rasmus UZR 12.1 Wells UZR -19.1. MINUS 19.1! Rasmus WAR 2.9 Wells WAR -0.8 I don't know on what planet Vernon Wells is even close to Colby Rasmus, but it certainly isn't the planet Earth. Not even factoring in age and contract, Rasmus is infinitely superior to Vernon Wells in every conceivable way.

True, offense is the big issue for the Cardinals, though Wainwright, Carpenter and Halladay seems like something you can't pass up if it's possible (Not sure it is). As far as the system goes, we'd still have Shelby Miller and Mateo (Who both can't be moved), to replenish the system right away after the trade for Halladay, so it wouldn't completely kill us. (Move from a top 10 system, to more of a top 15-20 system). I think if a team is willing to take Vernon Wells contract, they might be able to get Halladay for next to nothing, but only teams I can see doing that are the Mets, Red Sox and the Yankees.

If a heated race to land Halladay starts up, I'm not sure the Cards could put together a competitive offer even with Rasmus included. J.P. is probably going to want quality player(s) to plug in at 1B, SS or 3B. STL can't really offer that. I disagree Rasmus is a starting point. Before today's game he had the 11th highest WAR for position players in the NL. Not that it will happen, but Rasmus alone is more than enough to get the deal done. Agreed. Rasmus and a lower level prospect for Halladay is well more than enough. I don't think people actually comprehend how good Rasmus is, in his rookie season at 22 years of age. I wouldn't even think about trading Rasmus for any pitcher, but I would trade Wallace, Daryl Hones and anyone else they wanted in the minors for Halladay. Toronto drafted Wallace back in 2005 (But he went to college instead), so they would definitely seem to be interested in him.

Really? Carpenter is far better than any pitcher on the Cubs Wainwright is as good as any pitcher on the Cubs Pineiro isn't as good, but is pitched as well as any pitcher on the Cubs Lohse is hurt, but he's a a solid 3rd, good 4th starter Wainwright would have the 4th best ERA on the Cubs. Carpenter would have the best ERA, but he's pitched a grand total of 65 innings. ow has Piniero pitched as well as any starter on the Cubs? Lshe is hurt? Go back to St. Louis. Carpenter's resume is solidified. Nobody on your staff is even close Wainwright over the last 3 seasons has been as good as any Cub starter, and this year he'd be second in VORP on the Cubs behind Lilly, who he is a much better pitcher than. Lilly is basically Kyle Lohse with a few more Ks, but more walks. I didn't say Pineiro was a good pitcher, but he's having a very good season. You worry about Ks, I worry about HRs and BBs. And he's given up 12 walks in 92 innings. That's great. And he's given up 2 home runs. It wont last, but that's not what I argued. Carp >>>>>>>> Zambrano Wainwright > Harden (Should he even count? He doesn't even pitch and when he does, he's awful). Lilly = Lohse Dempster > Pineiro, but that's not saying much Randy Wells? Marshall vs. Brad Thompson. Whatever, they all suck. Go to sleep.

Really? Carpenter is far better than any pitcher on the Cubs Wainwright is as good as any pitcher on the Cubs Pineiro isn't as good, but is pitched as well as any pitcher on the Cubs Lohse is hurt, but he's a a solid 3rd, good 4th starter

My only gripe is his lack of walks. He was known for his patience and discipline at the plate and early on he displayed it, but not so much the last month and a half. Other than that, he's been very productive for a first year player.

Too bad this kid doesn't have any power. :roll:

that's nice. two of your best pitchers in the playoffs were jeff suppan and jeff weaver, and last time i checked, everyone pitching for the cubs is better than those two clowns. I'll give you that one. That was not expected lol.