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That's great. We have 3. And Starlin Castro. And Matt Garza. And a lot more money. And really smart people making decisions for us. But yea, we need to aspire to be the A's so we can win 76 games instead of 72. My summer will be so much more enjoyable then. No we need to aspire to win 78-80 instead of 65. I think you guys are greatly overestimating a team with a rather large loss in power, and a marginal defensive upgrade overall. Keep harping on your arbitrary win totals and ignoring the points being made. What point was being made again? that the A's have been mediocre? Fine its better than losing 90 games. And they have less of a budget, and have kept rebuilding all the while. The cubs have a much larger budget. All Im saying is that if they can rebuild and somehow field a decent team so can we. And now I believe you are the one who needs to acknowledge points being made.

I wonder if they'll do as well as they did last time they had 7 top 100 prospects. In 2008, they had the 22, 26, 46, 50, 56, 98, and 99th ranked prospects on BPro. What followed was truly the golden age of A's baseball. We shall see. The werent signing guys to 12 mil a year contracts in the last few years either. This tells me they are serious about actually contenting again.

That's great. We have 3. And Starlin Castro. And Matt Garza. And a lot more money. And really smart people making decisions for us. But yea, we need to aspire to be the A's so we can win 76 games instead of 72. My summer will be so much more enjoyable then. No we need to aspire to win 78-80 instead of 65. I think you guys are greatly overestimating a team with a rather large loss in power, and a marginal defensive upgrade overall.

Hold on cowboy. I didn't know all of the teams in the central were so bad. So, both the Reds and the Cardinals are going to barely eclipse the .500 barrier? Do explain. Uh, the cardinals lost pujols. Enough said there. The reds were 4 games under last year. Yes they will be better with their additions but how much 7-10 games? that puts them at 85-75 at best. Latos wont pitch like he has at petco in great american ball park. If you have a decent team on the field you never know what can happen.

I may have misread your posts, and if so I apologize. However, what triggered me to post that was what I thought I saw in your posts that you were justifying the Cubs passing on Cespedes and justifying the As signing him because they are closer to contention than we are. If that's what you intended to say, I disagree with that because of what I posted - they may have a stronger minor league core than us, but we have much, much better resources and, thus, can effect a much quicker turnaround than them. If we're willing to use those resources, though, which we haven't been to this point. We definitely should have signed Cespedes and he definitely fit us better but I think its a good signing for them if they dont start doing the prospect shuffle with other teams again. If they're committed to build for a winner it makes sense.

Actually, and I may very well be in the minority, but I think they'll end up better than last year. Granted, I don't think they're a .500 team, but I do see improvement happening. I could see 74-75 wins. There's that hallmark consistency of the Oakland A's. I'm hoping that the Cubs aren't consistent and actually break through that 75 win barrier next season. We just need to focus on what's important, winning at least 73. (72 if a game is cancelled) (5 days in a leap year) Do you fail to see that this division will be won by a team that is just barely over .500? The point is we could still compete this year. Its funny though how you were spouting off how bad the A's are and yet they have 7 top 100 prospects in baseball and building a consistent winner again without completely blowing off the major league fans.

Here's the thing I think you're missing, though: because we're a big market team, we don't have to build exclusively through the minors. The As have no choice but to mire themselves in mediocrity until their young core is in the majors and ready to contend. We don't, or shouldn't. We shouldn't have to rebuild as extensively or as long as a small market team like the As do simply because we have the capability of spending money (intelligently) through FA without crippling ourselves. I'm pretty bothered by missing on Cespedes. I said that in my first post, and the one after this one you quoted. But as usual the great minds here were focusing on the one aspect that they disagreed with. But yes dew, you are entirely correct and that is my point.

Actually, and I may very well be in the minority, but I think they'll end up better than last year. Granted, I don't think they're a .500 team, but I do see improvement happening. I could see 74-75 wins. There's that hallmark consistency of the Oakland A's. hey they have avoided the major loss seasons thats better than we have done. And they have been constantly rebuilding, and have a much smaller budget! We have a much larger budget so again there is no reason we cant field a decent team while rebuilding as well. Again, their young core is far, far, better than ours and well suited to compete before we do. We have 3 top 100 prospects in baseball. They have 7 with cespedes and some nice pitchers already on their roster. Ill take that going forward any day of the week. Our front office has been in place for not even four months, their front office has been in place for a decade. I'll take our resources, our front office, and our 3 (probably soon to be more with a #6 pick and possibly Soler) top 100 guys going forward. Is this even a discussion? And who cares if they've managed to barely avoid 90 losses those years? How is that any kind of accomplishment? Consistently sub-mediocre but not terrible. Awesome. I dont know about you but Im tired of watching 90 plus loss seasons. But if we can get a team that looks like its has a shot at .500 its at least worth watching while we wait for young guys to develop. Plus its never a sure thing, developing players. Who did theo develop after 05? nobody significant. they benefited greatly from deep drafts in his first few years. At least if your team is .500 there is less of a climb to the top. Right now we need a lot to go our way to be a .500 team even next year.

Actually, and I may very well be in the minority, but I think they'll end up better than last year. Granted, I don't think they're a .500 team, but I do see improvement happening. I could see 74-75 wins. There's that hallmark consistency of the Oakland A's. hey they have avoided the major loss seasons thats better than we have done. And they have been constantly rebuilding, and have a much smaller budget! We have a much larger budget so again there is no reason we cant field a decent team while rebuilding as well. Again, their young core is far, far, better than ours and well suited to compete before we do. We have 3 top 100 prospects in baseball. They have 7 with cespedes and some nice pitchers already on their roster. Ill take that going forward any day of the week.

thats very mature of you. But I dont see much evidence of doing both. We signed a bunch of other teams rejects and are hoping that one of them figures it out.

They have 6 top 100 prospects in baseball. Make it 7 with cespedes. thats about as good as a core as you can get. but again they are a small market team working with much less resources and somehow can manage to field a descent enough team every year despite a constant rebuilding cycle. All of the sudden we cant field a team better than last years 90 loss pos? come on. Theres no reason we cant do both.

Besides jackson and rizzo. our best prospects are four years away. And its not like Rizzo or Jackson are of the top ten prospect variety. I.e. no sure thing. Their minors are deeper and their prospects are much closer to the majors. And their major league roster is horrendous and they spend 8 dollars a year on major league payroll. And yet somehow they are always remarkably close to .500 every single year. They're doing something right. Season Wins Losses Win % Place Playoffs 2000 91 70 .565 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to New York Yankees, 2–3. 2001 102 60 .630 2nd in AL West Lost ALDS to New York Yankees, 2–3. 2002 103 59 .636 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to Minnesota Twins, 2–3. 2003 96 66 .593 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to Boston Red Sox, 2–3. 2004 91 71 .562 2nd in AL West 2005 88 74 .543 2nd in AL West 2006 93 69 .574 1st in AL West Won ALDS vs. Minnesota Twins, 3–0. 2007 76 86 .469 3rd in AL West 2008 75 86 .466 3rd in AL West 2009 75 87 .463 4th in AL West 2010 81 81 .500 2nd in AL West 2011 74 88 .457 3rd in AL West 10 to 14 games under .500 is remarkably close to .500? That's what their last 5 years have mostly looked like. As far as their prospects go, once they come up what are they adding them to? They'll either trade off current players or let them walk before those prospects can come up and get acclimated to the majors. We have had four 90 loss seasons in that same time. Most recently last year. They at least have consistency when they rebuild. We are probably looking at another 90 loss season this year.

Besides jackson and rizzo. our best prospects are four years away. And its not like Rizzo or Jackson are of the top ten prospect variety. I.e. no sure thing. Their minors are deeper and their prospects are much closer to the majors. And their major league roster is horrendous and they spend 8 dollars a year on major league payroll. And yet somehow they are always remarkably close to .500 every single year. They're doing something right. Season Wins Losses Win % Place Playoffs 2000 91 70 .565 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to New York Yankees, 2–3. 2001 102 60 .630 2nd in AL West Lost ALDS to New York Yankees, 2–3. 2002 103 59 .636 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to Minnesota Twins, 2–3. 2003 96 66 .593 1st in AL West Lost ALDS to Boston Red Sox, 2–3. 2004 91 71 .562 2nd in AL West 2005 88 74 .543 2nd in AL West 2006 93 69 .574 1st in AL West Won ALDS vs. Minnesota Twins, 3–0. 2007 76 86 .469 3rd in AL West 2008 75 86 .466 3rd in AL West 2009 75 87 .463 4th in AL West 2010 81 81 .500 2nd in AL West 2011 74 88 .457 3rd in AL West

Besides jackson and rizzo. our best prospects are four years away. And its not like Rizzo or Jackson are of the top ten prospect variety. I.e. no sure thing. Their minors are deeper and their prospects are much closer to the majors.

Yeah, $18 million is all it takes to build a hell of a contender. no one said that 18 million is all it takes to be a contender. only that they arent willing to spend on a big free agent with that contract hanging around. 18 million may or may not make us a contender with this division you never know. 18 mil spent properly probably makes us more interesting to watch though. Thats all im looking for really. Field a team that has a chance to be .500. What proof do we have that they're not "willing to spend?" They just offered Cespedes the most guaranteed money. They severely overpaid for another Cuban prospect, and they're reportedly offering Soler a ton of money. We have no idea what they offered Pujols, Fielder, Wilson or Darvish, but the fact that they were seemingly involved in all of those discussions indicate that they are at least "willing" to spend. What proof do you have that they bid more? some other message board poster? until I read it from a reputable source that means nothing to me. We are a major market team, there is no reason we shouldnt be able to spend on amateur and professional talent at the same time. Theres no excuse for putting the present team on the field. edit: 7 million dollars is not severely overpaying for a lefthanded pitcher that immediately becomes a top 5 prospect in our system.

Yeah, $18 million is all it takes to build a hell of a contender. no one said that 18 million is all it takes to be a contender. only that they arent willing to spend on a big free agent with that contract hanging around. 18 million may or may not make us a contender with this division you never know. 18 mil spent properly probably makes us more interesting to watch though. Thats all im looking for really. Field a team that has a chance to be .500 while all the guys in the minors continue to progress.

the A's lost two outfielders and a DH from last year. I have no problem with them collecting multiple outfielders. How is that any different than the cubs having a million pitchers to compensate for last years garbage rotation? Cepedes, Crisp, and hope one of the fringe/young guys stick. With all of their pitching talent much closer to the majors then ours they have a better chance of competing before we do. This is a good move for them. On another note, every world series winner in recent memory has had at least one major free agent acquisition on their team. Even the 03 marlins paid I-rod 10 mil to catch. The 97 marlins got sheffield, Alou and devon white in a single offseason. Yankees, Diamondbacks, phillies, redsox, cardinals etc. All these teams paid up to get to the promised land. To suggest that we can simply build a world series winner without engaging major free agents is either ignorant or pure arrogance.

Yeah expectations have really tumbled this offseason. I think it's becoming clear that those stories we read last year about spending being limited for the next year or two while Tom climbs out of debt from the sale might have been true. I know some won't agree and point out examples to disprove that but it certainly seems like that on the surface as we've had several ways to increase the overall talent in the organization with resources made available from players coming off the books and were unable to pull the trigger. We may still get Soler and the latest reports are pretty good but there were reports that the Cubs were pushing hard for Cespedes as well an in the end it didn't appear to be the case. What can be said to disprove it? Even Pena's 10million was half deferred. At this point I think we have to assume that spending money will be an issue until we get rid of soriano's contract. This is pure crap.

I'd rather have Cespedes if it's one or the other. Soler would likely be on the Baez/Vogelbach path. Cespedes is in his mid 20's and probably be ready after a couple months at Iowa. I was anti-Fielder and very much in favor of thinking towards the future, but Soler is a little bit too far into the future compared to Cespedes, who should still be plenty productive when we're ready to compete while not being an albatross if he is not. Castro, Jackson, Rizzo, Cespedes, and Garza (if not traded) is a pretty good group to build around and hopefully ready to compete in this division by 2013 with some additions. Yeah, I hope this is not the case. Soler would be a real nice get and all but man, Im a cubs fan not a peoria chiefs fan. Theres no reason why we couldnt have made all the future-minded moves we have, while adding to the major league roster. I want to buy tickets this year but I cant justify spending any money on this team since they have done very little to improve this season. If they are going to mail in 2012 well hey maybe I will too. At least cespedes add some intrigue to a team with zero power and poor defense and shows me that the cubs are serious about competing in the next five years.

quote taken out of context? maybe Im being nit picky but this (above) makes it sound like yeah he only wants to play for the marlins. this is the full quote: “It is too early to speak about that, but there is no doubt that I would like to play in front of so many Cubans in Miami,” Cespedes said. “Here, I would get [the Cubans’] support, and that genuine support is very important. But there are things that are out of my control and are best kept with my attorneys. “I am very happy to be in this country, and I will not deny that I would like to play for the Marlins.” http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/08/2630058/miami-marlins-set-to-court-yoenis.html

why would that mean no money for soler? we were promised by ricketts that the payroll would remain the same. We are 40 mil short right now by my calculations. Plus were are going to get more advertising revenue from the right field renovations We're right at 115 on the 40 man right now. We went into last year at 135. either way that still 20 million. no one was getting 20 mil from us except Fielder who is gone now. And soler may not have to count against the 40 man if they get creative. Well the plan right now seems to be going after Soler, Cespedes and a veteran relief pitcher (guess we have interest in bringing in one since we have been linked to a few guys before they signed elsewhere) right now and if we actually sign all 3 of those that could add $10-15m to the payroll on the 40 man for this year pretty easily. If those were our last three moves that would be a great finish to the off season. Two moves for the present and one for the future. I dont see us getting both cubans though with the marlins out there trying to make a marketable splash.

why would that mean no money for soler? we were promised by ricketts that the payroll would remain the same. We are 40 mil short right now by my calculations. Plus were are going to get more advertising revenue from the right field renovations We're right at 115 on the 40 man right now. We went into last year at 135. either way that still 20 million. no one was getting 20 mil from us except Fielder who is gone now. And soler may not have to count against the 40 man if they get creative.

why would that mean no money for soler? we were promised by ricketts that the payroll would remain the same. We are 40 mil short right now by my calculations. Plus were are going to get more advertising revenue from the right field renovations

You are incredibly optimistic because that is alot to ask for. Its not like Rizzo or Jackson are a top 5 prospect in baseball, the kind of cant miss game changer that will set us up for years to come. They have the look of solid major leaguers but its hard to call them perenial all-stars or anything like that at this point. They could just as easily flame out at this point. The point is one hasnt seen a major league pitch and the other faultered big time when he did. And these guys are leading us to a world series in two years? I'm not saying they wont ever be the good players many envision but they arent getting much playing time this year and I would highly doubt both go crazy as rookies and lead us to playoffs next year. As far as wood, volstad, stewart, lahair, cardenas, your asking for guys that have already failed to take advantage of their respective opportunities on previous teams to become legitimate starters. This doesnt happen that often. Sure its magnified when it does but how many diamond in the rough former prospects did theo find with the bosox? yeah they may be young enough to turn it around but again they have already failed so there is reason to be skeptical. Beyond that our best minor leaguers are four years away. Again I dont see two years being possible what so ever. 4-5 seems more realistic to me.

Progress from the minors isnt hindered by signing free agents though. Its not like spending on a free agent hinders us from spending on amateur talent now that there is a cap in place. Also there was no reason we cant sign a young talented free agent like cepedes, fielder, or Darvish and see lots of progress from the minors. Then in two years be ready to compete for the next five. What I'm getting at is that I think we missed a shot to compete in two years by not signing a young superstar talent. and now we are looking at four to five years before we can compete at the earliest.