Caryatid

I guess I'm just not sure what the point is in complaining about this team anymore. There seem to be givens: 1. Nobody in this franchise cares about OBP. 2. Dusty Baker loves Neifi. 3. Jim Hendry loves Dusty. 4. Dusty is going to say colossally stupid things on a weekly basis. There are continually discussions regarding these four things-I just can't take it anymore. All of them are true, and none of them are going away any time soon, so I guess what I'm saying is that I'm done pointing them out. Its too frustrating and (seeing as how there's nothing that fans can do whatsoever), pointless.

I would say 1, 2, and 3 on the list are OBP, because you simply want guys on base for your 3-4-5 hitters. The ability to hit to the right side is usually pretty valuable if you plan on hitting and running.

Omar Vizquel is Izturis's #1 comp in PECOTA, with a score of 53, which means at his age, he looks a lot like Vizquel did at the same age. Izturis's #2 comp is Cristian Guzman, though, with the same score of 53. I hope he progresses like Vizquel in the near future, but I think it's more likely we see the second coming of Cristian Guzman. I wonder how that would compare with Ozzie Smith? Izturis has comparable (mostly better) numbers to (than) Ozzie over his first six seasons. Aside from stolen bases, Izturis stacks up well with one of the greats at SS. Cesar's career 69 OPS+ is considerably worse than Ozzie's 87. AHEM... I said FIRST SIX YEARS. You cannot compare a career to a player who hasn't entered their prime yet.... that's not even close to fair. FIRST SIX YEARS... Izturis does compare. Calling Ozzie Smith "one of the greats of all time" is a bit of a stretch, though.

Omar Vizquel is Izturis's #1 comp in PECOTA, with a score of 53, which means at his age, he looks a lot like Vizquel did at the same age. Izturis's #2 comp is Cristian Guzman, though, with the same score of 53. I hope he progresses like Vizquel in the near future, but I think it's more likely we see the second coming of Cristian Guzman. I wonder how that would compare with Ozzie Smith? Izturis has comparable (mostly better) numbers to (than) Ozzie over his first six seasons. Aside from stolen bases, Izturis stacks up well with one of the greats at SS. This caused me to look at Ozzie Smith's career numbers: what in God's name is he doing in the Hall of Fame? He's just about an average player. I didn't realize backflips were so integral to the voting process.

I think, understanding that Izturis is not going anywhere, its time to just root for him to do well next year and hope we're wrong about him. At this point, I'm happy to say I was wrong (at least right now-maybe not for the rest of the year) about Jones and I hope he does this well next year and, if the Cubs have him in '08, I hope he does well then too. There's a certain level of acceptance that I think we're going to have to have here, because regardless of how stupid we think the philosophy is, its not going anywhere. Might as well root for the team to do well in '07, because that's all we have.

Yes, silly indeed. Thanks for cutting and pasting my posts. I think I know what I posted, so no need to do it for me. Okay? If you're going to use anectdotal evidence to try and prove a point, you have to assume some will be used in opposition.

C'mon! You would be comfortable with Neifi Perez at SS instead of Itzurtis going into next year? Abso-frickin-loutely. Defense: Wash (both former GG winners, both actually very good on defense) Offense: Perez has superior numbers, but probably a wash. Cost: Perez Looks simple to me. Don't you think that Iz is a bit more upside to his career then Neifi? I mean you can't be serious? What has he done, either in his minor league or major league career, that's anything better than anything Perez has done?

It can hurt. Because he's signed through 2007, at least, and is really bad at what the Cubs need people to be really good at. I would have taken nobody for Maddux over a deal like this. This hurts the team. I'd have taken a C prospect who doesn't even affect the organization. Who did you want to play SS next year? How do questions like this address the issue? Who else did you want to play? What else did you want for Maddux? If you are going to go with no production at SS, you might as well pay minimum wage (Cedeno) and spend money on other positions. If you are going to spend money on SS, you better get some production. Izturis is expensive and a drag on the offense. This offense can't afford anymore "contributors" who cannot get on base. Why is this so complicated for people? Because the thought is that Izturis and Cedeno both cannot produce offensively, so that must mean they are the same. They are not. Izturis is better offensively and defensively by a pretty good margin. They both have upside still. Will it be enough to justify what is being paid? I don't know-maybe not. Izturis on the team is a definite upgrade from Cedeno at short though, and it's a pretty decent upgrade. If we put Cedeno at second next year, that will be our huge mistake that will be the biggest part in destroying the offense, because his bat is weaker than Izturis's. How is Izturis an offensive upgrade by a "pretty good margin?" Cedeno's career OBP is .294, Izturis' is .295. Cedeno's career OPS is .640, Izturis' is .634. Their minor league numbers are almost identical too-in fact, Cedeno's are better. Looks to me like its, at the very least, a wash.

C'mon! You would be comfortable with Neifi Perez at SS instead of Itzurtis going into next year? Abso-frickin-loutely. Defense: Wash (both former GG winners, both actually very good on defense) Offense: Perez has superior numbers, but probably a wash. Cost: Perez Looks simple to me.

Okay, then based on the rumors perpetrated by the Cubs mouthpiece (WGN), there was at least one team dumber than the Cubs in the offseason.

Paying anything more than a dollar for Neifi is overpaying.

And probably the year after that... Izturis has to be thrilled. He's almost guaranteed to have his club option picked up for '08, when there is no chance the Dodgers would have taken it. Yes there was. The Dodgers loved him. they loved him so much they completely squeezed him out of their infield plans for this season by acquiring mueller and furcal. Do me a favor and talk to some Dodgers fans. Look at their forums. They love Iz! They think it's a terrible trade getting rid of him. I think all these negative posters will turn around once they see him play on a daily basis. I know I can't wait to fall in love with a sub .300 OBP hitting in the 2 slot. I'm going to love us not scoring runs. I'm going to love people whining about how "Ramirez doesn't drive in enough runs" or some load of garbage like that because the guy can't get on base. But I guess all will be forgiven because he makes a nice play once a game.

Anyone want to take wagers on when: a. The Chicago mainstream media who is loving this move now begins to say what a horrible move it was. and b. When someone on this board accuses another member of "second guessing" the Izturis move and says "you probably loved it when they made it."

Gotta go lefty-righty dude. That's how smart managers win ballgames.

This might be more appropriate in Rants, but oh well. I just can't give anything else to this team anymore. I couldn't leave the game on while Hendry was talking-he just makes me sick. I can't stand what he's done to this team, I can't stand his philosophy, I can't stand the fact that he thinks he's doing a good job, I can't stand that he's going to give Baker an extension, I can't stand the fact that this team is going to be no better next year than they are this year, and I can't stand the fact that I'm a fan of this load of garbage that keeps coming out day after day. This organization is utterly pathetic and I see absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel.

Someone's going to have to save us when Neifi signs a huge FA contract with the Yankees after the 07 season.

I don't think I've ever hated this team more than I do today.

8. Pitch. Inning. 8.

2006 numbers: Perez: .256 avg Izturis: .252 avg Perez: .625 OPS Izturis: .655 OPS Career numbers: Perez: .270, .678 Izturis: .260, .634 It looks to me like Neifi is actually BETTER than Izturis. Which is the saddest thing I've ever written. Those numbers are extremely skewed though. Izturis is 26 years old where most of his major league numbers came when he was 21, 22, and 23. He had his best year when he was 24, was mentioned as an MVP candidate at the end of May last year, and then got hurt and went into a major tailspin before they finally shut him down. This season's numbers mean almost nothing-he has had only something like 120 AB's after coming back from injury. Give him some time, he might come back to 2004 numbers or better. His minor league numbers weren't much better: .271, .662. I think we've seen what we're going to see with him, and it ain't pretty.

2006 numbers: Perez: .256 avg Izturis: .252 avg Perez: .625 OPS Izturis: .655 OPS Career numbers: Perez: .270, .678 Izturis: .260, .634 It looks to me like Neifi is actually BETTER than Izturis. Which is the saddest thing I've ever written.

I really wish I could believe this, but Hendry's love for these types of awful players has shown me far too much...

dude, I tangle with many of the people you are tangling with right now, but look at the roster going into 2004 and look at the roster going into 2007. there's many reasons for negativity there, and if Aram opts out, that will leave exactly three players that are capable of being in the top half of the league at their position, barring offseason acquisitions. sure, defense up the middle is important, but the game is really about scoring runs and pitching. and what really compounds it is that the past two off seasons were relative disasters, so it's hard to see any acquisitions that will allow us to score any runs. the only option will be to bench the two best positional prospects we've had in two decades. it's just an absolute nightmare right now. I hear you and agree. But I don't see what else Mad Dog brings in a deadline trade. You have to give something to get something. 2 months of 4.69 ERA doesn't bring much. If this team is to turn it around, it was never going to be on the back of a miracle Maddux trade. So why make a deal that makes you worse offensively both now and in the future?

"Gooey sentimentality" is what makes sports fun. My job has no gooey sentimentality, and that's why people don't pay $50 for a seat watching people file reports in cubicles. I don't necessarily want a GM with too much of it, but if it didn't exist, what would be the point of watching sports? Isn't this supposed to be about fun? What's wrong with a little sentimentality? it's more fun watching good teams than teams i want to hug and write poems about. Feel free to prove that the Cubs would suddenly go from a team that hasn't won in 95 years to a good team by trading one guy for a "C" prospect. feel free to prove how the cubs would suddenly go from a team that hasn't won in 95 years to a good team by keeping a 40 year old with a 4.70 era in the last year of his contract. Answer a question with a question...hmmm.... Anyway, I don't have to prove that, seeing as how I never claimed it to be true. I have claimed TWO things: 1. Keeping Maddux would be good for Marshall, etc., because they have expressed an affinity for him and claim that he has helped them greatly. 2. Keeping Maddux would be good because I enjoy watching him pitch These two things, in my opinion, outweight the cumulative value of getting some C prospect and having Ryu get 10 starts. That's what I have written. You are the one who claimed you wanted to watch a "good" team, therefore the burden of proof is on you. Go ahead. you got me. i can't prove the opposite of the thing that you admittedly can't prove yourself. it's like you saying unicorns exist and then saying you're right b/c i can't prove they don't. well played. No-you can't prove the opposite of the thing I never tried to prove in the first place. Good try, though. kinda like how you imagined me saying that trading maddux would make the cubs a good team. Its really hard to deny something that you wrote when you quote it in your post.

I never wrote that. I wrote "getting a C level prospect and Ryu 10 starts." My point this whole time is that trading Maddux for a C level prospect is pointless. The C level prospect referred to the player they would get in return for Maddux. Who am I to say what would be best for each-it really depends upon the player. And, like I wrote earlier, I doubt that the 10 starts one of them might get would make that much of a difference anyway. but the two months of knowledge from dean maddux will. Can you prove it won't? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here, or why you're so angry. I think he'd be good for the young players and I like watching him pitch, which are both opinions that you can feel free to disagree with. But you can only present a counter opinion which has no more weight than my opinion here, and furthermore, is attempting to prove something that cannot. I readily accept that my opinion has at least something to do with unquantifiable emotional response. Can you?

"Gooey sentimentality" is what makes sports fun. My job has no gooey sentimentality, and that's why people don't pay $50 for a seat watching people file reports in cubicles. I don't necessarily want a GM with too much of it, but if it didn't exist, what would be the point of watching sports? Isn't this supposed to be about fun? What's wrong with a little sentimentality? it's more fun watching good teams than teams i want to hug and write poems about. Feel free to prove that the Cubs would suddenly go from a team that hasn't won in 95 years to a good team by trading one guy for a "C" prospect. feel free to prove how the cubs would suddenly go from a team that hasn't won in 95 years to a good team by keeping a 40 year old with a 4.70 era in the last year of his contract. Answer a question with a question...hmmm.... Anyway, I don't have to prove that, seeing as how I never claimed it to be true. I have claimed TWO things: 1. Keeping Maddux would be good for Marshall, etc., because they have expressed an affinity for him and claim that he has helped them greatly. 2. Keeping Maddux would be good because I enjoy watching him pitch These two things, in my opinion, outweight the cumulative value of getting some C prospect and having Ryu get 10 starts. That's what I have written. You are the one who claimed you wanted to watch a "good" team, therefore the burden of proof is on you. Go ahead. you got me. i can't prove the opposite of the thing that you admittedly can't prove yourself. it's like you saying unicorns exist and then saying you're right b/c i can't prove they don't. well played. No-you can't prove the opposite of the thing I never tried to prove in the first place. Good try, though.