LuvChicagoSports

It's alright I'm not gonna take offense if someone calls me an idiot. I too get frustrated with others opinions. I agree with him in the sense that speed can't be used when a player is unable to get on base like Corey Patterson, but that doesn't mean his speed is in a slump, it just means he has been unable to use it effectively. Players that have a ton of speed that don't utilize it are wasting one of the best weapons they can offer a team. Furcal however has a lot of stolen bases for a player with just an average obp. This can greatly help whoever hits behind him. Look at Marcus Giles and Tadihito Iguchi as examples. They see many more fastballs because of the player in front of them that is on base and a threat to steal. Speed not slumping not only can help the player but can help players behind them as well.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that Jim Hendry stands behind this clown Dusty Baker, and if Dusty isn't fired a week into the offseason (I don't think he will be fired at all) then it is time for fans to look at Jim Hendry as the problem behind the poor managing. Or it could be the fault of Andy MacPhail not allowing the move to happen because of the money due Baker. Dusty's offensive team scored a ton of runs yesterday and what does this clown do. Changes the lineup completely and plays his guys that he likes rather than the best lineup. I don't even care if the Cubs win or lose the rest of these games, but in looking to next season in sure would be nice to see what we have in some young players. We are going to head into next season with question marks about Cedeno and Murton because they didn't play every single day down the stretch. Hendry should be demanding that he sees these guys on the field everyday so he knows what he has. Dusty Baker is a joke and I know other threads like this have been posted, but I am too damn frustrated to not start my own thread over it.

no I didn't say that he won't go into slumps and things of that nature. I said speed does not slump. Meaning irregaurdless of what kind of at bat he has, if he finds himself on base he is potentially dangerous to other teams. Also, infield hits are a possibility more often than with players with slower speed or a lack of hustle. I by no means meant that Furcal is completely consistent and he himself won't go into a few slumps.

I don't think people are really bashing mad dog. If they are it is a true shame of the what have you done for me lately era that has made it's what into preofessional sports. It should not ever be forgotten that Maddux is a hall of fame pitcher with over 300 wins and 3000 strikeouts. Besides that his ERA may not be the best in the business, but he is still going to amass between 12-15 wins and coming from the 4th or 5th spot in the rotation that is just fine. Maddux deserves great respect from the fans, teammates, and opponents.

I also mentioned the Reds outfielders, but they too would require us to give up players. My point is that Huff is 6 years younger than Giles is and that is the main reason I would take him over Giles. Giles could easily earn up to 10 million or more per season at age 34. Furcal on the other hand will cost us less than Nomar cost us this season at like 6 to 7 million per season. If Walker was such a good leadoff hitter he would have been cast in that role at some point previously. Don't get me wrong I like Todd Walker very much, but he isn't the answer at lead-off spot. The single biggest problem we have had over the past 2 seasons is not having a legititimate leadoff hitter. I'm speaking offensively only, because injuries to pitchers is the real biggest problem we have had. Furcal would fill that role perfectly. We were such a dangerous offense when we had Lofton up at the top of the order getting on, wreaking havok on the bases, and then the middle of the lineup would get him in. Derrek and Aramis are the answer as the 3 and 4 hitters. They are both very talented hitters who more often than not will get the runners home when the opprotunity is there. I also believe that Michael Barrett is miscast as the 8 hitter on the team. He should be hitting in an RBI position because he is a player that is above average offensively. Also do not get me wrong here. I like the suggestions you are making except I don't think it fills the needs for a leadoff hitter. I guess we just disagree with the idea that Walker fits there or not. And I am not a guy that is obsessed with speed, I just like the fact that speed can't slump.

You can still improve the offense without going off the deep end. Sign Giles to play a corner, trade some of the excess arms to get another quality OF. If you trade for a CF, put Murton in LF. If it's a corner OF, then you consider the likelihood of Patterson bouncing back, or consider an outside option(trade, FA like Jacque Jones, etc.). If you can't reconcile all 3 corner OF spots, then attempt to upgrade at SS, whether it's bringing back Nomar, going after Lugo, throwing everything at NYY for A-Rod, etc. Why get Giles. He has been on a steady decline and is an older player. I don't want a guy that after next year we are upset about having 2 years left on his contract because we realize he is old and washed up. Furcal is a major upgrade at SS and fills two roles as he can be the lead off man we have been lacking since Lofton left town after the playoffs. Huff is a better option in RF than Giles anyway. I'd rather have Furcal than Nomar or Lugo anyway, and A-Rod isn't going anywhere. He is the BEST player the Yankees have and they know it. I'd be all for getting another player to play LF, but the question is who and what do you give up to get him. The free agent class is weak, and you don't want to trade away your whole system for a rent-a-player or a washed up vet like Hollandsworth that Dusty Baker will miss use again.

I would love to make a big addition to the rotation, but until Maddux comes off of the books, I don't see it happening. Personally I would love to see all kinds of changes, but again I don't see it happening. This isn't my ideal lineup, but one that I actually think could be put on the field. I think there are plenty of things that we could do, but won't do. Once again I said this is what I think we will put out on opening day 2006, not what I would do if there was no budget and teams we trade with would give us whatever player we deem that we want.

Ok, a few of these moves could be made that have potential to tremendously help this team, but the move that could help most is getting rid of Dusty Baker, but I do not believe that will happen. Lineup: SS- Rafael Furcal 2b- Ronny Cedeno 1b-Derrek Lee RF- Aubrey Huff (Cubs have been toying with getting him before and deal is finally made) 3b-Aramis Ramirez (I would have him hit 4th but it's Dusty managing) c- Michael Barrett cf-Corey Patterson lf- Matt Murton Rotation: Prior Zambrano Maddux Wood Williams Bullpen Dempster- closer has has been good and likes the Cubs and his role. Williamson Ohman Novoa Wuertz Another left handed reliever Bench: Hairston Kelton McClain 3 more players- 2 with good speed and ability to take a walk and 1 left handed bat with decent power. Obvioulsy they won't be great players because they would be starters then, but look for guys that have the potential to be good with their role. Would love Mackowiak. I like the idea of Furcal and Cedeno up the middle. Pie IS NOT ready to come up. Part of the problem with Corey is that they brought him up way too soon and now it is really starting to show. Let Nomar walk. Maybe get a 3 way deal going in order to obtain Huff because you could pick up the WAlker option and send him to a team that needs a good 2b for some prospects that could be used to send to Tampa. Huff's numbers took a rough hit this season, but he is a very good offensive player throughout his career. Cedeno would be willing to move to 2nd if it meant playing everyday. Also this team would get considerably younger getting rid of guys like Todd Walker, Hollandsworth (already gone), and Burnitz. Furcal and Huff would both be 28 I believe and everyday players. D Lee would be the oldest every day player on the roster. Aramis, Furcal and Cendeno along with Lee would make a very good very young infield. Murton, C-Pat, and Huff would make a young starting outfield. Barrett would have to be moved up in the lineup where his offensive production would be better suited anyway. If you can't get Huff, go get one of the Reds 4 outfielders. One will probably demand a trade this offseason, because all 4 deserve to be starters. Let me know what you guys think. I think this is a more well rounded team. Guys that can steal bases in Furcal, Patterson, Cedeno, and Lee. A leadoff hitter, better defense, and just flat out a better younger team IMO.

Personally I can't see them losing the lead in the AL central, but if they manage to fall apart even more than they have it would go down as one of the single worst collapses ever. Especially considering how far up they were, and if you look how far out the Indians were, for them to be even in it is amazing.

Hey Dusty's guy Macias hurts us again. This is disgusting why am I still watching.

If Carlos did in reality quit, then his teammates aren't going to take too lightly to that. He's quitting on them too which could be a disaster. Personally I think they need to have a players only meeting and have Prior and Wood go to Hendry and say they don't want Dusty around if that is in fact what is happening here. Hendry would listen to them because he is building his entire job security on their arms.

I hope Carlos refuses to play for Dusty Baker again. That would make for a hell of a predicament for the front office. Keep your young incredible arm or keep your pathetic manager....oh wait that isn't a big predicament. Get rid of this sorry manager.

I wouldnt go so far as to say Lawton's defensive lapse is due to Dusty. Lawton has never been a good defensive player. The Cubs knew what they were getting into when they picked him up. I'm not saying it is Dusty's fault that the players do it, but I am saying he needs to hold them accountable or they will continue to do it. If you don't get on a player or players for continuing to make the exact same mistakes then they will just continue to make those mistakes. Being a players manager doesn't mean sitting on your lazy a$$ and letting people do whatever they want.

Cut off man cut off man cut off man cut off man........holy crap Dusty Baker should be screaming at his players because they don't play fundamentally. But no this idiot allows them to do whatever they want and now Lawton figures he'll do the same garbage cause Dusty doesn't care. My high school team could have beaten the Cubs if we were able to hit the pitching. The only difference between the Cubs and the high school teams are that they Cubs can hit a 95 mph and the Cubs can throw a 95 mph. This team is pathetic

I said this same line in the game threads, but when I watch this team play I shake my head, but when I watch the way this team is managed I want to throw up.

Watching this team play makes me shake my head, watching the way this team is managed makes me sick.

That was terrible, but my question is that if the infield was in the huge pull shift why wasn't the outfield also in a shift towards right field. Macias was playing straight away cf. This is something that just doesn't make sense.

Jim send Murton and Cedeno back down to the minors so they can continue working on things rather than ride the pine. Do we still have Trinidad Hubbard. Bring up a guy like that Dusty will probably start someone like him. He's old, slow, no obp, and a bad average.....just like Macias and Neifi he's a perfect fit for Dusty. Hendry should have known better than to bring them up because they aren't going to make an audition for next season by riding the bench and they are not going to play under Dusty Baker.

What is going on? Dusty has to find a way to get his boy Neifi out there. He hits him in the two hole which we all know is ridiculous. Macias is still playing which is absurd. At least Dusty was smart enough to put him in the 8 hole which I am convinced he did because of the report that came out that told him to do it. Walker has been stuggling, but it ins't like Neifi has done anything as of late. Murton continues to ride the pine so the vets can play which is also a bunch of garbage. Hendry will lose his job if Baker is brought back next season, because this team won't do anything under him next season either.

Let's say just for the sake of an argument that the Cubs absolutey tank the rest the season finish in 4th well below .500. (this won't happen because this team isn't consistent with anything be it winning or losing.) Ok, so we had a absolutely dismal finish to the season and shi*t starts to hit the wall. Dusty gets shown the door along with all of the coaches except Spier because he has done a FANTASTIC job as the third base coach. The Cubs go out and land Dierker, Gonzalez, or Girardi who seem to be guys of choice. This is obviouly all hypothetical, but lets say Kerry has sucessful surgery and they can actually count on him as part of the rotation. Rotation looks like this. 1. Prior 2. Wood 3. Maddux 4. Zambrano (really the 3 but respect must be given to Maddux and Wood has seniority) 5. Williams I think Rusch would be a good starter, but his value could be used in a trade this off-season. Teams are always looking to add a starter especially someone from the left side and the Cubs could probably get more for him than Williams. To help fix the bullpen, we use some of the new Sammy money and go get Billy Wagner to close. Move Dempster to the eight inning. Other 4 guys maybe 5 depends on what the new manager would want look like this. Williamson Novoa- has good potential if used right Ohman- very good against lefties and can still get better Wuertz- was very good early in the season, I think Dusty overused him and now his arm is just outta gas another lefty specialist to fill the last role That would be a fairly good pitching staff and if the right manager was given the reigns it could prove to be very effective. Now we move to the offense. First and foremost the Cubs biggest glaring need is someone at the top of the order. It is a MUST to find that as we knew it to be a hole in both the 04 and 05 seasons and has proved to be costly. Cubs go out and make a splash by getting Pierre who ESPN insider says is a FA after this season. If not him we go and get Damon. Both are out there and it is a huge need for us so we make the move. While Burnitz has been better than expected he really isn't a solution to the problem so we bid him farewell. Pierre is moved to left field if Corey seems to have worked out some of the problems he was having. Take a look at the team on the south side of town. They have the lead off man in left because the better defensive player is Rowand even though he is the better offensive middle of the lineup guy like Corey. New right fielder is Austin Kearns. Hendry really likes him, and while Dunn would be nice he would cost WAY too much to get and defense is pretty bad anyway. We let Nomar walk unless he signs a cheap deal, probably not gonna happen so Cedeno is opening day starter. Barrett gets the nod from the new manager and gets a rejuvinated confidence because he no longer has to hit eigth and gets put into an rbi spot. Opening day lineup looks like this 1. Pierre LF 2. Walker 2b 3. Lee 1b 4. Ramirez 3b 5. Kearns RF 6. Patterson CF 7. Barrett C 8. Cedeno SS Defense is upgraded up the middle with Patterson back in center and Cedeno at short. Walker has played better than advertised defensively and is a perfect 2 hole hitter so we live with the average defense at best. If Barrett fails to produce the offensive numbers from 04 he is benched and Blanco becomes the everyday player because of his superior defense, but lets just say Barrett finds his stroke again for optomistic purposes. With the two table setters up top we would definately have more scoring opprotunities. Aramis hits 4th because a new manager understands that you don't have to go r-l-r if your better hitter is the righty. Aramis hits right handers just fine. Kearns and Patterson can be flip flopped in the 5 and 6 hole, but lets just say Kearns in the 5 hole for now because of peoples negative feelings towards Corey until he proves he has regained his 03 form. Let me know what you guys think. I think this would be a MUCH more productive lineup and the pitching staff gets solidified because you bring in a real closer which allows everyone else to move down a slot. The wild card of course is if Kerry can stay healthy or not, but you make a back up plan so you are prepared for him to go down. Kerry is not a front line guy for us anyway. His numbers the past 2 seasons are pathetic. Z and Prior are 1 and 2 as far as starters go realistically. Anyway I know this was long, but as I get more and more devastated by the disgusting product I see on the field everyday I have to start looking towards next season. Just curious what all you other faithful fans think about this.

excellent post outshined. I totally hear you about some guys panning out and others not. It's good to hear that some guys out there are as passionate as I am about my teams. You obviously know more than I do about Hill though as I was unaware of his travels last season on his path here. I absolutely agree with you that the kids should be getting a chance to play from here on out so we at least know what we have as we move on from this season. I also agree with you that our coaching staff it pathetic. I'm not by any means saying I don't want Hill on our team and especially at this point in time. and many times the best players are not the ones who are highly touted, but guys like Pujols who came out of nowhere, because they don't feel the same pressure that the hyped players feel. I agree with you that Bobby Hill may have turned out to be a good player if brought up in a different system and part of that reason is why I think teams should study what the Braves have done over the past 15 years, because they have consistently won even though the team has transformed many times over the years. Even the integral parts of the team has change. It was Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine before and now it is only Smoltz that remains. They have won without a bunch of big names and have developed their own talent. That being said that isn't the only way to do it and it shows because of all the post season apperances they have only won one title. I guess with the raised expectations for the Cubs I do not want them to turn into the Yankees and just do everything with trades and free agents. I want the Cubs to be able to develop their team as well. I think with the budget they have, if you can mix that well with your own young talent, then you have the potential of putting together a great team that can be consistently good.

mhuber.....that is part of the things I have said. For one, nobody knows what we COULD have gotten. I'm not saying they should have traded him, because I don't know what they could have dealt him for. As for not landing an impact player, he could have been dealt to a bad team for a good player. I'm more or less trying to use this as a outside way of looking at how well the Cubs have done at projecting their prospects.

Hey outshined I hope that wasn't meant for me. I tried to make sure that I wasn't basing any of my opinion off of tonight's performance and in several of my posts said that his outing tonight is just something that happens and even said that Roger Clemens and Greg Maddux had bad outings. It is just part of how things go. He could turn out to be a total star and that would be a wonderful thing for the Cubs. My feelings for Hill are based off of his numbers in the minors and not with anything he has done at the ML level. I mean too much can be made of a guys career based off of what he does early and that isn't fair. my starting of this thread was more of a question about the Cubs being able to make good projections of players in their system or not. Rich Hill just happens to be the easiest to talk about today. Some teams like the Braves are constantly bringing good players up from within their system. Also teams like Montreal and Oakland do the same thing, but that is more because of a lack of money than properly projecting which players will be good.

I hear ya. The key is to find a balance between the importance of defense and offense. You have to be able to score runs to win, but also have to be able to field well and the pitchers have to have confidence in the gloves behind them to pitch effectively. I was all for Gonzo being traded as he was an absolute waste offensively, and I honestly like Nomar there, but he has to stay healthy. We've had a good glove there all season in Neifi and that hasn't helped much. Barrett's defense has hurt this team a lot. I don't think it his game calling though. He's called good games for the most part, just is ineffective at throwing baserunners out and is also not reliable at blocking pitches. At his current offensive numbers he is not a good option, but if he can regain his form from last year he should be ok. Walker has been substantially better with his glove that advertised, although he has made a few very critical errors. Without Corey's glove in center we are very weak defensively out there. Hairston was ok, but struggled to get the same type of jump that Corey would get and did not have the same type of arm. Hendry needs to make several additions to this team first and foremost being a lead off man. Juan Pierre and Johnny Damon will both be free agents after this season and both can't sign with the Yankees although I'm sure one will. With a player like that in left and Corey back in center we could have two pieces soved. Corey can bring an rbi type bat without the pressure of having to lead off while still playing exceptional defense. That is only if he embraces what he is down in AAA to do and that is learn a little more dicipline at the plate. IF he learns that all of his offensive numbers will get better including home runs which is what they are trying to get him to realize. Also, I think a choice needs to be made between Todd Walker and Nomar. Both can be very good #2 hitters in the lineup, but both are not getting any younger, and both are less than great defensively. I'd like to see a new 2b or SS based off of what you can get. Ronny Cedeno could be a good option but we don't really know because of the idiot managing our team, but that is another topic. So the Cubs need to look for a solution to that problem. Also while Burnitz has played very well for the Cubs this season, he is rather old and not really a part of the future of this organization. The Cubs should search for trade possibilities starting with Austin Kearns who would be able to post the same power numbers as Burnitz and is a guy that Hendry has always liked. From day one it needs to be understood that either Michael Barrett is the starting catcher or he is not. He was obviously brought here for offensive reasons, but the way he is used prevents him from producing. Dusty uses Henry Blanco to personally catch Maddux and Prior. When Barrett has 3 days off every week it is virtually impossible to get into any rhtyhm at the plate at all. Kerry Wood must stay healthy for this team to suceed. Everything is built around the arms of Prior, Wood, and Zambrano. So much energy is lost everytime he gets hurt. If the scope of his shoulder does not go well, then he must be put in the bullpen from the start of the season. If that happens his vestion option for 2007 clearly won't be picked up. This is being VERY optomistic but lets hope this is the starting lineup for the 2006 season. 1. Damon/Pierre lf 2. Walker 2b 3. Lee 1b 4. Ramirez 3b 5. Kearns rf 6. Patterson cf 7. Barrett c 8. Cedeno ss 9. Prior p Rotation 1. Prior 2. Zambrano 3. Maddux 4. Wood 5. Williams/Rusch Pen Novoa Wuertz Dempster Ohman another lefty specialist- Rusch is not in rotation closer- Wagner (free agent after this season) manager- Joe Girardi That would be the best part of the opening day lineup, but as well all know this isn't likely to happen. This is just me dreaming, but it's a nice thing to dream things like this after the product they make us watch on the field daily. Someone needs to get ahold of Hendry and make it clear to him that if he keeps Dusty Baker around it is going to end up costing him his job. Let me know what you guys think about that potential lineup. Also it would allow the Cubs not to rush Pie up and make sure he is fully developed in his game which they did not allow Patterson to do and it was very apparent as we watched him.

I'm not saying that the Cubs are alone in this mess at all. This is a very common problem among major league teams. If the Cubs were just hyping their prospects for trade purposes, then any decent trade possibility that came along would have been made. Obviously we don't know what was offered for Hill, but from a lot of publications he is pretty highly touted and still will be even after his mess tonight. I mean Greg Maddux and Roger Clemens have had some terrible games too. You can't base everything off of one performance both on the good side and bad. Hill is too overhyped though in my estimation. Especially for a guy with his career numbers. It's not like he is a can't miss thing like Prior was. I mean Steve Stone went as far as saying he wouldn't trade Hill and Pie for Manny, but he would have been willing to deal Aramis. To me that is absurd, but that is for another thread. The point is teams were obviously interested in Hill, but the Cubs feel his value is greater within the organization. Or at least they felt that way at the deadline which isn't to mean it can't happen in the offseason. I'm looking forward to how things pan out with him. Maybe Hill would have been dealt at the deadline if everyone still felt the way about Angel Guzman that they did two years ago. It's all just speculation, and at this point in our season speculation is the best thing that is happening on a daily basis. If we continue to spiral downward, I'd like to see an outfield of Pie, Murton, Patterson and Greenberg to finish off the season. Use all four in whatever rotation is necessary. Here's to hoping that isn't the case, but if the past week is any sign Bears season can't be upon us soon enough.