Sarcastic

We didn't really need hitting, no, it made perfect sense to trade hitting for fielding.

No, some people just hate Barrett.

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll I'll do it for you. :roll: Ok you convinced me - he has looked outstanding both behind the plate and on the basepaths Do you consider Manny Ramirez a bad baseball player? In true Joe Morgan fashion I will tell you no I don't but I don't watch Manny every day either. Having said that Manny OPS+ 129; Barret OPS+ 80 - I believe that gives Manny just a little more room to make gaffes in the field and on the basepaths. Not to mention Manny is a LF while Barrett is a catcher Um, that hurts your argument. Manny makes boneheaded plays and costs lots of runs in one of the easiest defensive positions. My point is the reasoning for calling Barrett a bad baseball player(always you said, even when he was putting up great OPS+s) was bad baserunning and bad defense, which Manny certainly trumps him in. And of course, Barrett's offensive numbers were much rarer at his position than Manny's.

What on earth makes you think that he's going to become a strong offensive catcher? He's needed a .385 BABIP to put up his meager batting average, and he has very little power.

Why would trading Barrett allow them to find out how Hill was tipping pitches?

Do or do not. There is no try. You, sir, are no Yoda.

It definitely adds future value. Assuming we would've gotten the draft pick for losing Barrett, it would've come in a similar spot to where Burke was taken just last year. Then we have control of Bowen for 3 more years after this year too. The question is really whether Bowen/Hill/Soto can be as good as Barrett for the remainder of the year. If they can, it's definitely a good trade considering we have Bowen beyond this year. If they don't, then it's personal preference how much the added asset beyond this year is worth the decline in production for the remainder of this year to determine how good/bad the deal is. That's a good point. I don't like it because I thought we could've gotten more for Barrett. But if Bowen turns out to help our pitching staff tenfold, then it seems okay. For now, I don't like it, we'll have to see how it pans out GAH! CERA is a meaningless stat! If the pitching staff improves tenfold after this trade, it will not be because of Barrett. I still disagree that this trade makes a significant improvment to future value. We are talking about a guy struggling in low A ball with a high probability of flaming out and a backup catcher. What kind of future value is that? We could have gotten someone to give us production similar enough to Bowen's without trading Barrett. The difference between one backup catcher and another is not significant enough to trade a starting player for an upgrade at that position.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Bowen won't play today, or even be with the team for the game. He just got traded today. It'll probably take him a day to get settled in and ready to go in Texas.

Things Hendry says to the media very rarely mean anything. Has he ever said anything but that he has confidence in the team as constructed? Although the Soto stuff doesn't look all that encouraging. I could definitely see them going with Bowen as the main catcher with Hill backing him up. They aren't that smart when it comes to designating playing time.

I wouldn't say it hinges. I would think there's a better chance Hendry realizes they need offensive help now that Barrett has been replaced for defensive purposes. And hopefully he realizes that SS and RF are the two biggest need spots for that improvement. So if a guy walks into the ER with a gunshot wound, no ones going to do anything about it, but if while waiting someone stabs him in the leg, then the doctors will need to take care of the gunshot wound? For clarification: guy=cubs gunshot wound=SS someone who stabs guy=Hendry stabbing wound =losing Barrett taking care of gunshot wound=upgrading offensively at SS This analogy is better than it appears at first.

The only argument I can see for this is money. If the ownership issue has frozen the budget at its current value (more or less), then freeing up Barret's money might be one of the only ways to add salary in a trade for an upgrade. There was no money freed up by getting rod of Barret. The Cubs paid for most of his remaining salary. It sounds like they saved about $800,000. And that'll be enough to... hire two more players at the major league minimum?

I don't see how any deal for a good hitting SS or RF is going to hinge ona trade for a backup catcher and a low A ball prospect. We traded offense for defense. We now have 3 black holes in the lineup. C, SS and RF. We can't afford to leave those spots as is. If we do, then this trade was stupid because we could have simply held onto Barrett as his offensive numbers were likely to improve and we could have let him walk this winter if Lou didn't like him. I'm overall pretty meh on the trade, but I expect needs to be addressed at some point. Of course we need more offense, I just see no reason to expect Hendry to be able to pull off a good trade just because he needs to. He knew that it was urgent when he started planning to trade Barrett, and he will probably need plenty of time to find a trade, if he does find one, that is.

I wouldn't say it hinges. I would think there's a better chance Hendry realizes they need offensive help now that Barrett has been replaced for defensive purposes. And hopefully he realizes that SS and RF are the two biggest need spots for that improvement. He needed to know that more offense would be needed if Barrett was traded before he made the trade. If he is looking to make an upgrade at all, I'm sure he's been working hard on finding a trade for some time.

I just wanted to say that this really is the best question to ask about the guy... What...Mom wanted Kyle, Dad wanted Tyler? I hate new made up names.... How about naming the kid Tyle?

Personally I wouldn't call this pure anger. If you ask me, it was one of the calmest trade threads ever on this board. Most people were resigned to the fact Barrett was going, not a lot of people are ecstatic about the deal, but there's only been a couple people who've gone ballistic. Bowen's been a mediocre producing catcher in his pro career who is having a good 2007 but probably won't sustain the numbers. He'd be a nice cheap backup for a team with a good starter, but he's probably not starter material himself, at least in the long haul, but he'll be stable defensively. The kid whose parents were desperate for a name that started with K has some physical ability but hasn't done jack squat as a pro (600 OPS in rookie ball and sub 600 in low A ball). I would agree with all of this, with the caveat that this trade will look much worse if SS or RF aren't upgraded fairly quickly. If we want to contend, we can't wait til July 31st to make a move. We're 7 back and 5 under. The time to make a run is now. I don't see how any deal for a good hitting SS or RF is going to hinge ona trade for a backup catcher and a low A ball prospect.

I'd be pretty surprised if he is backing up Josh Bard, considering his inability to hit so far this year. The Padres are definitely in need of a good hitter, and Barrett is much more likely to be that for them than Bard is. It will be fun to see what happens to the Pads ERA when he pitches. It is either going to make one side or the other of the Barrett argument look silly. That debate is already over. Catcher's ERA is BS.

Because Blanco is on the shelf, maybe for the year, and Hill sucks. The Cubs need two catchers right now. I would be surprised if Bowen is the full-time starter. Hill does suck, but they've been giving him more playing time. I'm not sure they know that he sucks, and I wouldn't discount the possibility of the Cubs keeping him on as back up catcher. I think Hill will be sent down. I really don't see Bowen replacing Barret. He isn't a full-time catcher. That just wouldn't make sense. In the short-term maybe, but I would hope Hendry and Lou recognize the roster is missing a full-time receiver. The organization has a history of giving players more playing time than their talent justifies. See Neifi, Macias, etc. I'm not convinced in the least that the trade was made to make room for Soto, and if it had been, they could have at least tried to get something of value for him. A back up catcher is pretty worthless.

Bowen is a back up catcher. He can't hit, and is marginally better at fielding that Barrett, though he does draw some walks. His numbers this year are good, but his BABIP is ridiculous. Burke is a 19 year old OF prospect who supposedly has a high ceiling (1st round supplemental pick) but has struggled in low A ball. See the beginning of the thread on him in Baseball Discussions.

I'd like to see them get rid of Hill, but it seems like the organization is taking a liking to him. How long is it supposed to be until Soto is fit to catch again?

Because Blanco is on the shelf, maybe for the year, and Hill sucks. The Cubs need two catchers right now. I would be surprised if Bowen is the full-time starter. Hill does suck, but they've been giving him more playing time. I'm not sure they know that he sucks, and I wouldn't discount the possibility of the Cubs keeping him on as back up catcher.

It's either one but no team would sign him before 12/1. Plus, he'd be dumb not to except, unless you're assuming he changes how he has played so far this year and there's an expected demand for him. One more year of Barrett equals one more year of a likely declining C both defensively and offensively (from the '06 Barrett) and gives Soto his 3rd year at Iowa. I'm all for Soto, this hopefully cleared the way. What signs have been given to make us think Soto is being considered? It seems pretty clear that they are planning to use Bowen as the main catcher. If they wanted to bring up Soto, why trade for a catcher?

Maybe. But that is a horrible reason to dump a player. We're not talking about a sub-replacement level player whose roster spot we could have gotten more production from by calling up a AAA player. Barrett isn't Neifi.

i'm in a good mood, so i won't bust out the eye roll I'll do it for you. :roll:

I'm mostly pissed off because they traded a catcher that could hit, an extreme rarity, for a back up catcher and a weak rookie ball prospect. Barrett wasn't hitting that well this year. I know it is a very small sample size compared with what he has done the past couple of years, but when you couple his offensive performance this year with his defensive woes and baserunning brainfarts, Michael has hurt the team more than he has helped it so far. I'm indifferent to trading him. Are you indifferent to replacing him with a backup catcher who will almost definitely hurt the team more by being unable to hit? If we could have gotten a decent return for him, I wouldn't shed a tear over the guy. He is in the last year of his contract, after all, and might not have resigned. But to trade him for this garbage is unacceptable. Bowen's not necessarily terrible-he's just a huge question mark. He was a very good prospect who appeared to flame out and then has become a late developing catcher (which is not uncommon at all for a catcher). He could hit decently at this point-he hasn't had regular at-bats in 2 years, so it's hard to say that if he can replicate his part time production of the last year and a half over a full-time job. He is 26 though, so it's not unreasonable for him to be able to do that. He has the patience and the power potential, so he has the ability to succeed. It's just a risk. It was stated earlier, either in this thread or the one in transactions, that Bowen has a .385 BABIP. His only good season in the majors has been in a very small sample size, less that 90 ABs this year. I'd say the chances of him turning into a good hitting catcher are similar to the chances that Theriot's Sept. callup numbers last year were more representative of his abilities than his years of mediocre minor league play.

I'd be pretty surprised if he is backing up Josh Bard, considering his inability to hit so far this year. The Padres are definitely in need of a good hitter, and Barrett is much more likely to be that for them than Bard is.