DeuceBaseman

It shouldn't be a big reason. And absolutely none of that has anything to do with batting leadoff. I'm going to disagree that this team is desperate for stolen bases, but that's not the point of this. If his skills make the Cubs a better team, then they should try to acquire him. But it shouldn't be because they feel there is a void at the top of the lineup. Let me ask you this...if there was a solid defensive shortstop available that was a .330/.485 hitter and maybe stole five bases a year (not your definition of a leadoff hitter), would you still prefer that the Cubs pursue Roberts instead? No, your point is ridiculous and has nothing to do with this argument. Some of the qualities listed above like playing good D and switch hitting has nothing to do with leadoff, but that is why I said he is being pursued for other reasons besides just a leadoff hitter. He is a great player, and he fits our team needs, and one of them is a leadoff hitter. If there was a solid SS like that, then of course I would rather have the Cubs get that guy because that guy obviously puts up better numbers than Roberts and plays a position where we need more help at. But the thing is, that guy doesnt exist or isnt available. And if he were, then he would cost a lot more than Roberts would cost. I just want to make this team better. I think we can upgrade at SS, I think we can upgrade at the leadoff spot in the order by moving Soriano down, I think we can upgrade in the starting rotation. The 1 guy who I think would help us the most would be a Jose Reyes.

I agree, no one knows if he would have still hit 3 HR's in the 5 hole, and I agree that he needs protection behind him, but that is why Geovany Soto will be there. This guy will prove to be a monster behind Soriano. In my opinion Soto will hit 25-30 HR's and bat .300. This is good protection for him.

Well that's your argument for why as a leadoff hitter he gets more pitches to hit. If they werent afraid to walk him then they would just throw balls in the dirt all day no matter what order he is batting.

Base-stealing is overrated. Granted, Roberts does it at a good enough success rate that he's actually making an offensive contribution by doing it; he's very good at it and is one of the rare examples of someone whose base-stealing ability is actually helpful. That said, that doesn't mean we need it. Teams don't need speed or base-stealers. It's a luxury that's nice to have if all other needs are filled adequately. I agree that speed is a luxury not a need, but you can do SOOO much more when you have speed. It changes the game. You can do so much more when you have a solid 1-2 in the batting order. And that is what Roberts and Fukudome would give you.

Yeah I looked at it too, he had 3 solo HR's.

Yeah it was fun. Now were they all solo shots? I'm sure they were. If he was batting 5th then those 3 HR's would probably net him 7 RBI that game. Instead he probably got 4. You're completely missing the point. He wouldn't have had three homeruns because he probably wouldn't have seen those three fastballs and would more likely seen more crap he couldn't drive. With men on base pitchers can pitch him much more carefully. (EDIT: Because they know they have Soto, Theriot, Pie, etc. coming up next) When he leads off - and when he bats in front of the pitcher, #9 and #8 a pitcher can go right at him because he's not worried about him driving a three-run shot out of the park. OR when a pitcher sees Soriano up with runners on base he might pitch him less carefully being afraid to walk him and putting more people on base. And Soto up next will prove to be huge cuz that guy is going to be a monster this year. And if theres 2 outs and no one on, then the pitcher might pitch him very carefully so he doesnt hit a solo HR, and hope Soriano swings at misses at a bunch of balls in the dirt like he always does. There are arguments for both. I just think he would be way more valuable in the 5 hole.

You're missing the point. It's not about Utley or Youkilis. And no one expects one team to have the best player at each position. The point is that Roberts shouldn't be targeted simply because he bats leadoff. It's stupid to target a player for that sole purpose. As you said before: That bolded part is independent of who is batting leadoff. In other words, with the way the Cubs roster is currently built, Utley in the middle of the order is better than having Roberts at leadoff. To put it another way, Soriano at leadoff and Utley in the middle of the order is better than Roberts at leadoff and Soriano in the middle of the order. That's because Utley is a better offensive player than Roberts. I'm not saying Roberts is a bad player and that he won't make the Cubs a better team. However, the alleged reason the Cubs are pursuing him (he can bat leadoff) is flawed. You don't pursue a player because he can bat leadoff. You pursue a player because he makes your team better. If that player also happens to get on base frequently and can run well, then great, bat him leadoff. If he doesn't and you can't find another player on your roster that is even remotely capable of hitting at the top of the order, then either you're looking for the wrong qualities for a leadoff hitter (i.e., focused too much on speed) or your roster is flawed to begin with. You try to assemble the best team you can, position-by-position, and then you build the batting order from what you have. What you're suggesting is to build the team based on batting order. Roberts isn't being acquired just because he is a leadoff hitter. That is one reason and its a big one, but there are many more. We need a guy who gets on base and steals bases, we really dont have any guys who get on base at a high rate and steal bases. He plays good defense, he can bat from both sides of the plate, he is a smart player and a good leader. He is what this team needs. He compliments the other players very well. DeRosa is a great player and I would like to see him play SS if we got Roberts, but I think Roberts is much more needed on this team than DeRosa (whom would still have a big role).

Now you guys are just being stupid. I already explained that if you had all these guys then it wouldnt matter. But if you had a Russell Martin on THIS Cubs team, you wouldn't bat him leadoff would you? If you had a Chase Utley you wouldn't bat him leadoff, right? There is a reason for this! Stop being a smart ass and actually post something meaningful.

Yeah it was fun. Now were they all solo shots? I'm sure they were. If he was batting 5th then those 3 HR's would probably net him 7 RBI that game. Instead he probably got 4.

No I watched just about every at bat. I think he will get the same pitches in the leadoff spot or the 5 hole.

At the end of the year when I was watching Soriano leadoff, here is how the at bat went: -First pitch curve in the dirt landing a foot in front of the plate, swing and a miss striike one. -2nd pitch high fast ball above the head, swing and a miss strike two. -3rd pitch curve in the dirt in the opposite batters box, swing and a miss strike three. No matter if Soriano is batting 1st or 5th, the pitches he sees won't be that different because pitchers know how he hits.

Go out and read "The Mental Game of Baseball" by H.A. Dorfman. We were forced to read that on my 13 year old traveling baseball team the Renegades. You could be absolutely right about Soriano's mental capabilities when it comes to batting in a different spot. If that is the case then he should bat leadoff. But I doubt that that's the case, because he didn't want to move to the OF from 2B, and he made a fine transition. He might start off slow in the 5 hole but he'd get used to it. Soriano would be much more valuable to us in the 5 hole with a typical leadoff hitter in the 1 hole. And guys stop talking about having the best player at each position, or having Kevin Youkilis at the top of the order over Roberts and etc... Cuz those guys cost more and play different positions. Plus if we got those guys, they would best be utilized in a different spot in the order. We have a #2 hitter, we have a 3-9 hitters. We just need a leadoff hitter. If we got Youkilis instead of Roberts, then he would probably bat 2nd, he wouldn't bat leadoff, because we aren't utilizing all his attributes in the 1 hole. Roberts is best suited for a leadoff hitter. Of course I'd rather have ARod or Albert Pujols leading off than Roberts, but we can't get those guys, and if we did get them, then we'd be [expletive] to not bad them 3-4. So stop with that stupid argument.

You can do a lot more with a team if you have a leadoff hitter. Soriano is not a leadoff hitter and we arent utilizing his power there. He rarely comes up with men on. We need him to bat 5th. Roberts is a great leadoff man, and would make our team much better because we move Soriano down in the order. If we got Chone Figgins and Roberts, then I wouldnt mind batting Roberts 2nd. The fact is that we need guys who get on base and are fast at the top of the order while the guys who hit for power in the 3-6 spots. I think our team would score a lot more runs with a lineup of Roberts, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, Pie, Theriot rather than Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez, DeRosa, Soto, Pie, Theriot. Roberts would get on base. Fukudome would take enough pitches for Roberts to get a chance to steal 2nd. PLUS since Fukudome is lefty it would help Roberts have a better chance of stealing 2nd. Then Fukudome can single him in or somehow get him in scoring position for Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano to have a chance to drive in a few runs. I understand the argument of getting the best offensive player at each position, but that's impossible. Yeah I would like Utley over Roberts, but there really aren't that many other 2B I would take over Roberts, so he is one of the best at his position PLUS he bats leadoff.

No its not. I'm saying that if Utley was on our team right now batting leadoff then wed score more runs than if Roberts was on our team batting leadoff. But if Utley was on our team batting 3rd we'd score more runs than if he was on our team batting leadoff. Of course wed score more runs if a guy with a higher OBP was leadoff, but we arent utilizing him there cuz they can drive in runs lower in the order. And Roberts is a better bat than DeRosa.

And the broken record skips again. One more time: 1. Leadoff is not a position. 2. You don't know what Hendry wants any more than any other fan. Ok leadoff might not be a position, but it is still something you need to focus on when building your team. You need a leadoff hitter on your team just like you need a 2B. We have no leadoff hitters, so getting a leadoff hitter should be a top priority. Who cares if it is a position or not! It is a position in the batting order! No you don't! Would the Cubs score more runs with Brian Roberts leading off or Chase Utley? You want to have good players and then sort them out. This is the argument that was used for the wonderful Juan Pierre. You are obviously just a baseball fan. I am a baseball coach. It has been researched for years. Different spots in the order serve different purposes. Of course the Cubs would probably score more runs with Chase Utley batting leadoff rather than Roberts because he has a higher OBP. BUT, if you have Chase Utley on your team, you wouldn't bat him leadoff cuz you aren't utilizing his power and rbi potential. A leadoff hitter needs to take pitches, get on base, and be fast. Then the number 2 hitter should be able to control the bat well. Make a lot of contact, very rarely strike out, and place the ball wherever he wants. Then the number 3-4-5 hitters need to have power and drive those 2 guys in. This is the typical way the batting order should be structured. Soriano hit a ton of solo HR's last year. If he batted after Roberts, then a lot of those solo HR's would turn into 2 run shots. If roberts gets a single then soriano hits a HR we have two runs. If Soriano hits a HR then Roberts singles, we still only have 1 run. You can't just put anyone at leadoff.

And the broken record skips again. One more time: 1. Leadoff is not a position. 2. You don't know what Hendry wants any more than any other fan. Ok leadoff might not be a position, but it is still something you need to focus on when building your team. You need a leadoff hitter on your team just like you need a 2B. We have no leadoff hitters, so getting a leadoff hitter should be a top priority. Who cares if it is a position or not! It is a position in the batting order!

I disagree. I like DeRosa and think hes a great player, but Roberts would be much more valuable to the Cubs. He's a guy we can bat at the top of the order in front of lee and ramirez which is what hurt us most last year. Plus Cedeno probably wouldnt even start if he was on this team this year. And DeRosa would still be playing, moving around different positions. And a POSSIBLE #3 SP, a 4th OF, and a backup SS for an All-Star 2B??? No that is not enough to get an All-Star!

That is not a lot. That deal will not get it done. I would love to get Roberts for that deal! Too bad we're going to have to add Veal or Colvin to that deal to make it happen. Either way i'd do it!

If everything in the above is true, I could see a deal happening (not advocating it) that looks something like: Cubs get: Roberts, Sherrill, Payton O's get: Marquis, Gallagher, Colvin, Cedeno Wow that would be a huge steal for us. Too bad I see the same exact trade except take Sherrill out of the deal. I would still do Gallagher, Colvin, Cedeno, and Marquis for Roberts and Payton.

Once again I disagree with most of you again. I would trade Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno, and Veal for Roberts in a heartbeat. I would assume that we would probably get Jay Payton as well, but even if we didn't then that's still a good trade for us. Murton and Cedeno have no where to go on this team, and who knows if Murton will ever develop power or if Cedeno will actually learn how to hit MLB pitching. I don't know much about Veal, but I heard he's good, but we need Roberts! It would make our top of the lineup so much better.

The Baltimore Sun writer was on the radio and said that if the Cubs don't up their offer for Roberts then he doesn't think he'll be traded. I don't see us putting both Gallagher and Marshall in the deal. Maybe Gallagher and Marquis. I see something like Gallagher, Colvin, Cedeno for Roberts and Payton.

He's not better than Pie in the long run, but next year I bet he will be. And we're not talking about getting crisp with pie still on the team. We're saying that we would get Crisp if Pie is traded in a different deal.

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. Crane said that the Cubs have 2 offers on the table to get them 2 big names whom arent pitchers. If the Cubs end up trading Gallagher and Pie for Roberts which would be ridiculous, then they could trade Murton, Wuertz, and someone like marquis/Dempster/marshall for Crisp and be set. I would rather keep marshall and i dont know what the red sox would do with another SP. They got Beckett, schilling, dice-k, wakefield, lester, and bucholtz.

Not at all. I would love to do that deal. I don't think the Orioles would take it for these reasons: 1) 8 of the 9 Cubs players would have to go on the Orioles 40 man roster. That's 6 extra spots they would have to find places for, and that's not easy to do. In the Mariners deal, I believe only 2 of the 5 have to go on the 40 man roster, which is a lot better for the Orioles. 2) Most of the Mariners are very young players who have very high upsides, but may never make the majors. They won't be good until the Orioles are finished rebuilding. In the Cubs deal, 6 of the 9 players are decent major league ready players (Dempster, Hart, Murton, Cedeno, Marshall, and Patterson). The Orioles want players who can be impact players in 2010 and beyond, and the Cubs deal doesn't have enough of that, even with the additions of Pie and Gallagher. Most of the value in players like Marshall and Murton are in the fact that they can play now rather than a huge potential impact like the Mariners deal might bring. The overall value of the packages may be similar, but the Mariners package fits a lot better with the Orioles plan to rebuild and now worry about 2008 or 2009. Makes sense. I think the Mariners/Orioles deal will happen anyway. And hopefully we can get Roberts without giving up Pie.

I think the Mariners are offering more for Bedard than the Twins got for Santana. That being said, I dont think Jones, Tillman, Sherrill, Butler and Mickolio is that great. I think it is similar to Pie, Gallagher, Dempster, Veal, and Hart. Then you trade Murton, Cedeno, Marshall, and Patterson for Roberts. You then get to keep Hill, keep Colvin, Vitters, Marmol, Samardjiza, Ceda and a lot of other young players. Sure that's a lot to give up but your teams gonna be pretty damn good the next 2 years and beyond. Bedard and Roberts for Pie, Gallagher, Dempster, Veal, Hart, Murton, Cedeno, Marshall, and Patterson. I would do it if I were the Cubs GM and the Orioles GM, and I'm sure most of you would disagree and say that is WAY too much to give up for those 2. Even though not one of them would really affect our team at all this year.