Now we're on win shares. More importantly what did your eyes say for the 5 times that you watched him. That's what's most important. That he didn't develop at all as a player after his sophomore year. And his stats back that assertion up. Unless you're going to quote intangibles. What statistic would you like us to use to identify development and contribution to the team? I'll gladly use whatever you hack up to back up your case. I was indicted for using Ortg and Drtg as team dependent. His useage percentage certainly didnt go up either, he was a low useage player is whole time. But hey, I want a lifetime appointment for Groce, so I don't know why I'm arguing with you.