Golf thread

[soccer10k]

From the end of that Chamblee thread. Someone who pays more attention can correct him but he certainly tears into Mickleson.

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/mickel ... et-tu-phil

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

I'm not nearly as gung-ho to carry the PGA's water. Sure, playing for the House of Saud is gross, but all this "how COULD you!?! We paid you money AND gave you opportunities!!!" pearl-clutching routine jumped the shark a century ago. THE SAUDIS ARE OFFERING BETTER!!! Maybe highlight the political and ethical differences between the tours? ...or is that a tougher sell?

[squally1313]

Yeah I'm just not going to get too worked up over how this plays out. If the Saudi league turns into something with legitimate golfers, then I'll decide if it's worth my time/morals to watch it. Not really going to impact my current consumption of the PGA, and definitely not currently sitting here thinking the PGA is some honorable organization. It's probably the best job in the world regardless of where you want to play, let them figure out what they're comfortable with.

[Wilson A2000]

I'm not nearly as gung-ho to carry the PGA's water. Sure, playing for the House of Saud is gross, but all this "how COULD you!?! We paid you money AND gave you opportunities!!!" pearl-clutching routine jumped the shark a century ago. THE SAUDIS ARE OFFERING BETTER!!! Maybe highlight the political and ethical differences between the tours? ...or is that a tougher sell?

Golf media has been pretty much unified in its opposition to the SGL. How can they not be, since the King of Saudi Arabia killed one of their own? As Will Bardwell just wrote, sportswashing is designed to stop human rights reforms, but the players threatening to leave are saying that they think the new league will open up reforms in Saudi Arabia. The SGL isn’t a truly competitive league. They are willing to lose hundreds of millions to take the heat off of their human rights issues. It’s not an open market that the players are missing out on. And the Saudis found willing pawns in Phil and Bryson and DJ who are greedy enough not to care how the sausage is made. Phil and DJ have reportedly been offered over $100 million for a few years plus on-course earnings. Bryson has reportedly been offered $230 million. Tiger has only made $130 million on-course in his career. This is big money.

The SGL wants to start this summer. The big questions are how many players will leave, will they be banned by the PGA Tour and DP Tour if they leave, will sponsors leave these players if they go to the SGL (Royal Bank of Canada wouldn’t let Dustin Johnson where their logo in Saudi Arabia), will they get world ranking points if they leave, will the majors let them in even if they have qualified for those tournaments, who will broadcast these tournaments (Fox, streaming?), and will the players sue the PGA Tour or the majors if they get kicked out.

[CubinNY]

I'm not nearly as gung-ho to carry the PGA's water. Sure, playing for the House of Saud is gross, but all this "how COULD you!?! We paid you money AND gave you opportunities!!!" pearl-clutching routine jumped the shark a century ago. THE SAUDIS ARE OFFERING BETTER!!! Maybe highlight the political and ethical differences between the tours? ...or is that a tougher sell?

Golf media has been pretty much unified in its opposition to the SGL. How can they not be, since the King of Saudi Arabia killed one of their own? As Will Bardwell just wrote, sportswashing is designed to stop human rights reforms, but the players threatening to leave are saying that they think the new league will open up reforms in Saudi Arabia. The SGL isn’t a truly competitive league. They are willing to lose hundreds of millions to take the heat off of their human rights issues. It’s not an open market that the players are missing out on. And the Saudis found willing pawns in Phil and Bryson and DJ who are greedy enough not to care how the sausage is made. Phil and DJ have reportedly been offered over $100 million for a few years plus on-course earnings. Bryson has reportedly been offered $230 million. Tiger has only made $130 million on-course in his career. This is big money.

The SGL wants to start this summer. The big questions are how many players will leave, will they be banned by the PGA Tour and DP Tour if they leave, will sponsors leave these players if they go to the SGL (Royal Bank of Canada wouldn’t let Dustin Johnson where their logo in Saudi Arabia), will they get world ranking points if they leave, will the majors let them in even if they have qualified for those tournaments, who will broadcast these tournaments (Fox, streaming?), and will the players sue the PGA Tour or the majors if they get kicked out.

Basically, they want appearance fees from the PGA for the top golfers. That's what this is about. It's kind of sickening to me that blood money is the tool by which they are trying to extract extra money from the PGA. Chamblee was right to call out Mickelson. I guess private jets don't pay for themselves. I don't play or watch golf for a good reason.

[Wilson A2000]

I'm not nearly as gung-ho to carry the PGA's water. Sure, playing for the House of Saud is gross, but all this "how COULD you!?! We paid you money AND gave you opportunities!!!" pearl-clutching routine jumped the shark a century ago. THE SAUDIS ARE OFFERING BETTER!!! Maybe highlight the political and ethical differences between the tours? ...or is that a tougher sell?

Golf media has been pretty much unified in its opposition to the SGL. How can they not be, since the King of Saudi Arabia killed one of their own? As Will Bardwell just wrote, sportswashing is designed to stop human rights reforms, but the players threatening to leave are saying that they think the new league will open up reforms in Saudi Arabia. The SGL isn’t a truly competitive league. They are willing to lose hundreds of millions to take the heat off of their human rights issues. It’s not an open market that the players are missing out on. And the Saudis found willing pawns in Phil and Bryson and DJ who are greedy enough not to care how the sausage is made. Phil and DJ have reportedly been offered over $100 million for a few years plus on-course earnings. Bryson has reportedly been offered $230 million. Tiger has only made $130 million on-course in his career. This is big money.

The SGL wants to start this summer. The big questions are how many players will leave, will they be banned by the PGA Tour and DP Tour if they leave, will sponsors leave these players if they go to the SGL (Royal Bank of Canada wouldn’t let Dustin Johnson where their logo in Saudi Arabia), will they get world ranking points if they leave, will the majors let them in even if they have qualified for those tournaments, who will broadcast these tournaments (Fox, streaming?), and will the players sue the PGA Tour or the majors if they get kicked out.

Basically, they want appearance fees from the PGA for the top golfers. That's what this is about. It's kind of sickening to me that blood money is the tool by which they are trying to extract extra money from the PGA. Chamblee was right to call out Mickelson. I guess private jets don't pay for themselves. I don't play or watch golf for a good reason.

$230 million is far more than traditional appearance fees. The money being thrown at these players makes appearance fee money seem tiny.

[CubinNY]

Golf media has been pretty much unified in its opposition to the SGL. How can they not be, since the King of Saudi Arabia killed one of their own? As Will Bardwell just wrote, sportswashing is designed to stop human rights reforms, but the players threatening to leave are saying that they think the new league will open up reforms in Saudi Arabia. The SGL isn’t a truly competitive league. They are willing to lose hundreds of millions to take the heat off of their human rights issues. It’s not an open market that the players are missing out on. And the Saudis found willing pawns in Phil and Bryson and DJ who are greedy enough not to care how the sausage is made. Phil and DJ have reportedly been offered over $100 million for a few years plus on-course earnings. Bryson has reportedly been offered $230 million. Tiger has only made $130 million on-course in his career. This is big money.

The SGL wants to start this summer. The big questions are how many players will leave, will they be banned by the PGA Tour and DP Tour if they leave, will sponsors leave these players if they go to the SGL (Royal Bank of Canada wouldn’t let Dustin Johnson where their logo in Saudi Arabia), will they get world ranking points if they leave, will the majors let them in even if they have qualified for those tournaments, who will broadcast these tournaments (Fox, streaming?), and will the players sue the PGA Tour or the majors if they get kicked out.

Basically, they want appearance fees from the PGA for the top golfers. That's what this is about. It's kind of sickening to me that blood money is the tool by which they are trying to extract extra money from the PGA. Chamblee was right to call out Mickelson. I guess private jets don't pay for themselves. I don't play or watch golf for a good reason.

$230 million is far more than traditional appearance fees. The money being thrown at these players makes appearance fee money seem tiny.

Might as well make it a billion since it's just rumored money.

[bddavidson]

I think the players considering the jump are vastly over estimating their popularity relative to getting eyes on the sport.

If the Saudis take Phil, Bryson, Kokrak, Na, Poulter, etc away from the PGA tour...I would love it. Those are some of the more nauseating personalities amongst a sea of insufferable types. Losing them would not impact my consumption of golf content, which is embarrassingly high

[Tim]

If the Saudi's offer me $230M to work over there for a few years, I'm taking it. I can be bought. Just sayin'.

I don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.

[squally1313]

I think the players considering the jump are vastly over estimating their popularity relative to getting eyes on the sport.

If the Saudis take Phil, Bryson, Kokrak, Na, Poulter, etc away from the PGA tour...I would love it. Those are some of the more nauseating personalities amongst a sea of insufferable types. Losing them would not impact my consumption of golf content, which is embarrassingly high

Yeah if we're being honest, if God himself came down and plucked the 50 best players in the world and dropped them into the Saudi League, I would probably still watch 90% as much as I do now. The difference in skill between these guys is so miniscule, and at the end of the day, it's still gorgeous scenery, timeslots that generally don't overlap with anything else, and the thrill of knowing that once or twice a summer, you can pull off one of those shots yourself. If you just told me that...Cam Smith or whoever was suddenly the best player on the Tour, it would take me like three weeks to adjust.

[sweetpeteman]

I think the players considering the jump are vastly over estimating their popularity relative to getting eyes on the sport.

If the Saudis take Phil, Bryson, Kokrak, Na, Poulter, etc away from the PGA tour...I would love it. Those are some of the more nauseating personalities amongst a sea of insufferable types. Losing them would not impact my consumption of golf content, which is embarrassingly high

Yeah if we're being honest, if God himself came down and plucked the 50 best players in the world and dropped them into the Saudi League, I would probably still watch 90% as much as I do now. The difference in skill between these guys is so miniscule, and at the end of the day, it's still gorgeous scenery, timeslots that generally don't overlap with anything else, and the thrill of knowing that once or twice a summer, you can pull off one of those shots yourself. If you just told me that...Cam Smith or whoever was suddenly the best player on the Tour, it would take me like three weeks to adjust.

I wonder how many people are like my dad (and I really) who use golf as background noise on a Sunday afternoon while hanging around the house (or in my case, sometimes working). Also, one of the things that really makes watching enjoyable for me is something that the Saudi tour wouldn't be able to offer:

The last three tournament winners, Luke List, Tom Hoge, and Scottie Scheffler were all first time PGA Tour winners. Watching guys win for the first time, especially guys like Hoge and List who are in their 30s, is amazing. Watching Theegala make an insane run is something that this high end tournament won't offer. It'll just be a bunch of rich pricks playing for no real stakes.

[bddavidson]

I think the players considering the jump are vastly over estimating their popularity relative to getting eyes on the sport.

If the Saudis take Phil, Bryson, Kokrak, Na, Poulter, etc away from the PGA tour...I would love it. Those are some of the more nauseating personalities amongst a sea of insufferable types. Losing them would not impact my consumption of golf content, which is embarrassingly high

Yeah if we're being honest, if God himself came down and plucked the 50 best players in the world and dropped them into the Saudi League, I would probably still watch 90% as much as I do now. The difference in skill between these guys is so miniscule, and at the end of the day, it's still gorgeous scenery, timeslots that generally don't overlap with anything else, and the thrill of knowing that once or twice a summer, you can pull off one of those shots yourself. If you just told me that...Cam Smith or whoever was suddenly the best player on the Tour, it would take me like three weeks to adjust.

I wonder how many people are like my dad (and I really) who use golf as background noise on a Sunday afternoon while hanging around the house (or in my case, sometimes working). Also, one of the things that really makes watching enjoyable for me is something that the Saudi tour wouldn't be able to offer:

The last three tournament winners, Luke List, Tom Hoge, and Scottie Scheffler were all first time PGA Tour winners. Watching guys win for the first time, especially guys like Hoge and List who are in their 30s, is amazing. Watching Theegala make an insane run is something that this high end tournament won't offer. It'll just be a bunch of rich pricks playing for no real stakes.

Especially if this Netflix series takes off and they can really get you to like some of these guys who are finding their first win it will go a long way too. I admit to not watching the F1 series or races but damnit if all of golf twitter doesn't become F1 twitter during the races. That series could have a huge impact on the exposure of these guys.

[CubinNY]

If the Saudi's offer me $230M to work over there for a few years, I'm taking it. I can be bought. Just sayin'.

I don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.

You're also not already a couple of dozen times over millionaire, I assume. Context is everything.

[Tim]

If the Saudi's offer me $230M to work over there for a few years, I'm taking it. I can be bought. Just sayin'.

I don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.

You're also not already a couple of dozen times over millionaire, I assume. Context is everything.

Order of magnitude difference.

My comment stands

[Rob]

If the Saudi's offer me $230M to work over there for a few years, I'm taking it. I can be bought. Just sayin'.

I don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.

You're also not already a couple of dozen times over millionaire, I assume. Context is everything.

In a rarity, I'm with CubinNY on this one. When you're poor, it's easy to justify selling out one's morals and ethics in order to provide for their family. After all, that's supposed to be our #1 concern, right? We may try to be good, but the pull is certainly there when you have a family to support.

But once you already have enough in the bank to provide your family for a few lifetimes, there's no apparent need which stands to justify acting so unethically. It's just pure avarice.

Somebody like Phil has no business taking an offer like this. He has an ethical obligation to consider, and he's discarding it in favor of pure material gain. It's inexcusable.

[jersey cubs fan]

If the Saudi's offer me $230M to work over there for a few years, I'm taking it. I can be bought. Just sayin'.

I don't blame anyone for taking that kind of money.

You're also not already a couple of dozen times over millionaire, I assume. Context is everything.

Order of magnitude difference.

My comment stands

I'm all for players taking the highest offer but this isn't choosing between an offer from LA and NY.

[Wilson A2000]

[Cubswin11]

https://twitter.com/alanshipnuck/status/1494126260275978246?s=21

horsefeathers em all. Seems like it’s all mostly old guys like Phil, Kokrak, Hoffman, Poulter, Westwood, Stenson, etc. Bryson, DJ and Ancer are the only younger guys they might get. The league is going to be a disaster and nobody will watch or care.

[JudasIscariotTheBird]

https://twitter.com/alanshipnuck/status/1494126260275978246?s=21

horsefeathers em all. Seems like it’s all mostly old guys like Phil, Kokrak, Hoffman, Poulter, Westwood, Stenson, etc. Bryson, DJ and Ancer are the only younger guys they might get. The league is going to be a disaster and nobody will watch or care.

I'll admit this will be convenient for me.

[SpongeWorthy]

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/1 ... lf-league/

“They’re scary motherf—–s to get involved with,” he said. “We know they killed [Washington Post reporter and U.S. resident Jamal] Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates.

what a take to make public...getting dubya vibes

[Cubswin11]

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/17/phil-mickelson-pga-tour-saudi-golf-league/

“They’re scary motherf—–s to get involved with,” he said. “We know they killed [Washington Post reporter and U.S. resident Jamal] Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates.

what a take to make public...getting dubya vibes

Lol, Jesus Christ Phil. Idk what he’s trying to do. Blast a dangerous country you’re about to maybe partner with then admit you’re trying to leverage them for PGA gain and might not even care about them.

The No Laying Up guys did a pod recently where they basically debunked all his claims about the PGA withholding money, sitting on money, not paying enough to players, etc and the crazy valuation (believe it was $20 billion) he put on the media rights. He’s wrong about everything and some of them use to work for PGA/have legal and finance/accounting backgrounds and the PGA is a non for profit so their books are public.

[Wilson A2000]

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/17/phil-mickelson-pga-tour-saudi-golf-league/

“They’re scary motherf—–s to get involved with,” he said. “We know they killed [Washington Post reporter and U.S. resident Jamal] Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates.

what a take to make public...getting dubya vibes

Lol, Jesus Christ Phil. Idk what he’s trying to do. Blast a dangerous country you’re about to maybe partner with then admit you’re trying to leverage them for PGA gain and might not even care about them.

The No Laying Up guys did a pod recently where they basically debunked all his claims about the PGA withholding money, sitting on money, not paying enough to players, etc and the crazy valuation (believe it was $20 billion) he put on the media rights. He’s wrong about everything and some of them use to work for PGA/have legal and finance/accounting backgrounds and the PGA is a non for profit so their books are public.

$20 billion is probably his valuation of the NFT market and the traditional media market which Phil wants a part of. The PGA Tour is working with the players to give them a cut of NFTs. The Tour has responded to Phil with a NFT cut and increasing purses and the Player Impact Program. He’s made a dent and got some of what he wants, so why would he leave? Were the comments released today Phil’s way of backing out of the SGL? Something else I learned that PGA Tour players are getting a retirement program that is roughly half of their winnings. It’s the best plan in sports. Phil can’t complain that the PGA Tour isn’t giving the players enough money when the players have requested 50% to be withheld until they retire.

[Cubswin11]

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/17/phil-mickelson-pga-tour-saudi-golf-league/



what a take to make public...getting dubya vibes

Lol, Jesus Christ Phil. Idk what he’s trying to do. Blast a dangerous country you’re about to maybe partner with then admit you’re trying to leverage them for PGA gain and might not even care about them.

The No Laying Up guys did a pod recently where they basically debunked all his claims about the PGA withholding money, sitting on money, not paying enough to players, etc and the crazy valuation (believe it was $20 billion) he put on the media rights. He’s wrong about everything and some of them use to work for PGA/have legal and finance/accounting backgrounds and the PGA is a non for profit so their books are public.

$20 billion is probably his valuation of the NFT market and the traditional media market which Phil wants a part of. The PGA Tour is working with the players to give them a cut of NFTs. The Tour has responded to Phil with a NFT cut and increasing purses and the Player Impact Program. He’s made a dent and got some of what he wants, so why would he leave? Were the comments released today Phil’s way of backing out of the SGL? Something else I learned that PGA Tour players are getting a retirement program that is roughly half of their winnings. It’s the best plan in sports. Phil can’t complain that the PGA Tour isn’t giving the players enough money when the players have requested 50% to be withheld until they retire.

$20 Bil is still an insane valuation, NFTs or not and is putting some crazy multipliers on future value. The PGA isn’t clean here but they’ve given in on the PIP thing, which Phil won last year. I do wonder if Phil is trying to pull out but get one last grab from the PGA. Their retirement plan is world class. Plus they are given such great access to all sorts of sponsorship/promotion deals.

[Wilson A2000]

DJ pulled out of the SGL. Phil can’t be far behind. The threat of a permanent PGA Tour ban, the possibility of major bans, losing some or all of your sponsors, the uncertainty of the league, and the backlash from Phil’s comments were most likely enough even for one of the most money hungry of players in DJ.

[Wilson A2000]

Bryson looks to be now too