The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:03 pm

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby NOLA » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:44 pm

Derwood wrote:https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1555770599879983104

False argument, and this is part of why we fail. You fight elections differently in deferent places. Kansas? Hell yeah, you make this about personal rights and freedoms. Take the win, FFS. Press the progressive agenda, but meet the voters where they are in these down ballot initiatives. F*uck that guy that posted that. He’s not helping.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:25 am

Yeah, you tell him! You can't expect other states to be as accepting of openly liberal ideologies as *checks notes* KANSAS?!?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby muntjack » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:08 am

I was born in Kansas, spent a good deal of my life in Chicago and Seattle, and am back here in Wichita for the time being. If you think playing to 'personal rights and freedoms' is what resulted in the 17 point victory, you are wrong. States like Kansas shift more to the left with every birth and death. Wichita, Kansas City, Lawrence, Topeka are all blue. Motivate voters here and this will be the type of result you'll get. Playing defense (weakly) doesn't bring people to the polls.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby NOLA » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:08 am

muntjack wrote:I was born in Kansas, spent a good deal of my life in Chicago and Seattle, and am back here in Wichita for the time being. If you think playing to 'personal rights and freedoms' is what resulted in the 17 point victory, you are wrong. States like Kansas shift more to the left with every birth and death. Wichita, Kansas City, Lawrence, Topeka are all blue. Motivate voters here and this will be the type of result you'll get. Playing defense (weakly) doesn't bring people to the polls.

Obviously, you know that area better than me, but we’re talking about a very conservative state that went +18 against abortion restrictions. That’s more than a demographic trend.

I’d genuinely like to hear a local’s opinion on what all you think happened that election.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:34 am

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby JudasIscariotTheBird » Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:53 am

NOLA wrote:
muntjack wrote:I was born in Kansas, spent a good deal of my life in Chicago and Seattle, and am back here in Wichita for the time being. If you think playing to 'personal rights and freedoms' is what resulted in the 17 point victory, you are wrong. States like Kansas shift more to the left with every birth and death. Wichita, Kansas City, Lawrence, Topeka are all blue. Motivate voters here and this will be the type of result you'll get. Playing defense (weakly) doesn't bring people to the polls.

Obviously, you know that area better than me, but we’re talking about a very conservative state that went +18 against abortion restrictions. That’s more than a demographic trend.

I’d genuinely like to hear a local’s opinion on what all you think happened that election.

It was within our lifetimes that Kansas was a swing state. After Brownback, the state wised up and elected a Dem governor, which they have done fairly often in recent history. Kansas isn't "very" conservative. It just lost its mind for a little over two decades.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:30 pm

JudasIscariotTheBird wrote:
NOLA wrote:
muntjack wrote:I was born in Kansas, spent a good deal of my life in Chicago and Seattle, and am back here in Wichita for the time being. If you think playing to 'personal rights and freedoms' is what resulted in the 17 point victory, you are wrong. States like Kansas shift more to the left with every birth and death. Wichita, Kansas City, Lawrence, Topeka are all blue. Motivate voters here and this will be the type of result you'll get. Playing defense (weakly) doesn't bring people to the polls.

Obviously, you know that area better than me, but we’re talking about a very conservative state that went +18 against abortion restrictions. That’s more than a demographic trend.

I’d genuinely like to hear a local’s opinion on what all you think happened that election.

It was within our lifetimes that Kansas was a swing state. After Brownback, the state wised up and elected a Dem governor, which they have done fairly often in recent history. Kansas isn't "very" conservative. It just lost its mind for a little over two decades.

It scores well for being on the younger and higher college educated of states, for whatever both of those metrics are worth. Still pretty white I think though.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby muntjack » Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:07 pm

We have 400k people in Wichita, double the next largest city in Kansas. Here, it is very much a collection of individuals with virtually no sense of community, with churches being really the only exception. We don't have historical areas of interest like the east coast, no burgeoning industries, no geographical landmarks, no state or national parks. There is no large union presence and a disproportionally tiny music and arts scene of which I am a part. There are basically no rallying points. I believe people need rallying points, concrete or conceptual, to feel like they are a part of something bigger than themselves. Liberals and leftists here are numerous and growing, but they are isolated.


Edit: This is also one byproduct of wage suppression. Keep people busy working and they struggle to form communities.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:40 pm

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CubinNY » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:15 pm

I know we are in some kind of weird space that we can’t really get our minds around, but the Democrats are finally getting their act together after Roe. This big bill they just passed will be great for Americans of all background. Definitely could have been better (thanks Junior AZ Senator and GOP), buts it’s still huge. Problem is in two days people will forget about it. They need to get message discipline and hammer this stuff on every talk show and TV hit for the next two months.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:35 pm

CubinNY wrote:I know we are in some kind of weird space that we can’t really get our minds around, but the Democrats are finally getting their act together after Roe. This big bill they just passed will be great for Americans of all background. Definitely could have been better (thanks Junior AZ Senator and GOP), buts it’s still huge. Problem is in two days people will forget about it. They need to get message discipline and hammer this stuff on every talk show and TV hit for the next two months.


The GOP will take credit for it all despite voting against it.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Banedon » Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:45 am

Derwood wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I know we are in some kind of weird space that we can’t really get our minds around, but the Democrats are finally getting their act together after Roe. This big bill they just passed will be great for Americans of all background. Definitely could have been better (thanks Junior AZ Senator and GOP), buts it’s still huge. Problem is in two days people will forget about it. They need to get message discipline and hammer this stuff on every talk show and TV hit for the next two months.


The GOP will take credit for it all despite voting against it.




Spoiler: He actually voted against it.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CubinNY » Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:35 pm

We are doomed if he’s re/elected

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:02 pm

Derwood wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I know we are in some kind of weird space that we can’t really get our minds around, but the Democrats are finally getting their act together after Roe. This big bill they just passed will be great for Americans of all background. Definitely could have been better (thanks Junior AZ Senator and GOP), buts it’s still huge. Problem is in two days people will forget about it. They need to get message discipline and hammer this stuff on every talk show and TV hit for the next two months.


The GOP will take credit for it all despite voting against it.


Nah; the real easy spin from this one is "THE DEMOCRATS RAISED YOUR TAXES" with the combo of, "ZOMG, THE DEMOCRATS HIRED A BAJILLION NEW IRS AGENTS TO COME TAKE YOUR MONEY WITH THE TAXES."
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:21 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I know we are in some kind of weird space that we can’t really get our minds around, but the Democrats are finally getting their act together after Roe. This big bill they just passed will be great for Americans of all background. Definitely could have been better (thanks Junior AZ Senator and GOP), buts it’s still huge. Problem is in two days people will forget about it. They need to get message discipline and hammer this stuff on every talk show and TV hit for the next two months.


The GOP will take credit for it all despite voting against it.


Nah; the real easy spin from this one is "THE DEMOCRATS RAISED YOUR TAXES" with the combo of, "ZOMG, THE DEMOCRATS HIRED A BAJILLION NEW IRS AGENTS TO COME TAKE YOUR MONEY WITH THE TAXES."


THEY BOUGHT BULLETS FOR THE IRS!!! THEY WILL COME SHOOT ALL THE WAITRESSES AND UBER DRIVERS FOR TAXESSSSS
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Tryptamine » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:37 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
CubinNY wrote:I know we are in some kind of weird space that we can’t really get our minds around, but the Democrats are finally getting their act together after Roe. This big bill they just passed will be great for Americans of all background. Definitely could have been better (thanks Junior AZ Senator and GOP), buts it’s still huge. Problem is in two days people will forget about it. They need to get message discipline and hammer this stuff on every talk show and TV hit for the next two months.


The GOP will take credit for it all despite voting against it.


Nah; the real easy spin from this one is "THE DEMOCRATS RAISED YOUR TAXES" with the combo of, "ZOMG, THE DEMOCRATS HIRED A BAJILLION NEW IRS AGENTS TO COME TAKE YOUR MONEY WITH THE TAXES."


This is exactly what they've done and people will naively believe it. I can tell you as a tax preparer, that the low income people are vastly more likely to be audited with our current system then the high wealth people. High wealth people have complicated returns often featuring various LLCs, K1s, etc. and auditing those takes a long time. The IRS doesn't have the manpower to do that, so they audit the simple returns which are almost always the low income people. This is something we've known for a long time now.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:35 pm

CubinNY wrote:We are doomed if he’s re/elected



Which German generals? The ones who lost the war or the ones who spent the war trying to assassinate him?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:00 pm

Tryptamine wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Derwood wrote:
The GOP will take credit for it all despite voting against it.


Nah; the real easy spin from this one is "THE DEMOCRATS RAISED YOUR TAXES" with the combo of, "ZOMG, THE DEMOCRATS HIRED A BAJILLION NEW IRS AGENTS TO COME TAKE YOUR MONEY WITH THE TAXES."


This is exactly what they've done and people will naively believe it. I can tell you as a tax preparer, that the low income people are vastly more likely to be audited with our current system then the high wealth people. High wealth people have complicated returns often featuring various LLCs, K1s, etc. and auditing those takes a long time. The IRS doesn't have the manpower to do that, so they audit the simple returns which are almost always the low income people. This is something we've known for a long time now.


Yeah, people have been sounding the alarm about how insanely underfunded/staffed the IRS has been for a long, long time. The Republicans very actively stripped it down because it was so easy to sell under the banner of "horsefeathers TAXES," and this is one of the very few times Democrats have bothered to try and push back.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:01 pm

CubinNY wrote:We are doomed if he’s re/elected



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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:12 pm

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:33 pm

CubinNY wrote:We are doomed if he’s re/elected



They asked him about the generals trying to murder him (three times), and Trump's response was: "No, no, they were loyal to him."
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:34 pm

Which is also yet another case of somebody saving incriminating things they discovered for a book, in this case the person being, SHOCKER, the NYT's own Maggie Haberman.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:35 pm

UMFan83 wrote:


Which is also yet another case of somebody saving incriminating things they discovered for a book, in this case the person being, SHOCKER, the NYT's own Maggie Haberman.
Last edited by Sammy Sofa on Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Derwood » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:36 pm

Yep, all were stunningly silent for four years, but are now stunningly brave with their cushy book deals
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