The Politics Thread

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:09 pm

Just in time to horsefeathers up mid terms then fade into the sunset.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:11 pm

Why
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Bote McBoteface » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:01 pm

squally1313 wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/27/forward-republicans-democrats-new-third-political-party

“Not left, not right, Forward”

I like the name, I like the motto, I like Andrew Yang. I’m sure they either wont exist come 2024 or will have have a terrible platform/candidate, or will get shut out of the debates and left off of the ballots. But right now this has some potential to be good.


We sure about that?


Yeah, I mean, I don’t claim to be an expert on the guy or his policy proposals but when they allowed him to talk during the debates I liked what I heard. The thought of voting for him for president isnt vomit inducing like it is for people like Biden, Warren, Cruz, Desantis or Trump.

With the right mix of policies you could lure a good chunk of people who vote D because they hate the Rs and a good chunk of people who vote R but arent on the trumpism bandwagon.

The last couple pages here were discussing republican voters who dont want to vote for Trump again, and the prevailing opinion is that they will fall back in line and vote for him because in their mind its better than going Democrat or not voting. We could give them a different option. In the possible future where the Democrats run Biden again, and the Republicans run Trump again, a solid third party without Trump’s insanity or Biden’s recent poor performance could actually win.

But more likely it just fades away and we never hear of it again
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CubinNY » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:52 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Bote McBoteface wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/27/forward-republicans-democrats-new-third-political-party

“Not left, not right, Forward”

I like the name, I like the motto, I like Andrew Yang. I’m sure they either wont exist come 2024 or will have have a terrible platform/candidate, or will get shut out of the debates and left off of the ballots. But right now this has some potential to be good.


We sure about that?


Yeah, I mean, I don’t claim to be an expert on the guy or his policy proposals but when they allowed him to talk during the debates I liked what I heard. The thought of voting for him for president isnt vomit inducing like it is for people like Biden, Warren, Cruz, Desantis or Trump.

With the right mix of policies you could lure a good chunk of people who vote D because they hate the Rs and a good chunk of people who vote R but arent on the trumpism bandwagon.

The last couple pages here were discussing republican voters who dont want to vote for Trump again, and the prevailing opinion is that they will fall back in line and vote for him because in their mind its better than going Democrat or not voting. We could give them a different option. In the possible future where the Democrats run Biden again, and the Republicans run Trump again, a solid third party without Trump’s insanity or Biden’s recent poor performance could actually win.

But more likely it just fades away and we never hear of it again

You like crypto too though?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:07 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:Groups like the Libertarians or the Green Party have pretty much put most of their very limited eggs in the basket of running mostly for the highest of profile offices, thinking the exposure will kickstart them quickly around the country, and it never does. Liberal Democrats do the same thing, thinking running Bernie for president and having a smattering of Squad-types as being enough, when it's completely backwards from the way it really has to happen to actually truly change the path of the Democrats.


Gonna say it’s NEVER a good idea for liberals to do it on a national level. It’s why we got both Bush and Trump.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby squally1313 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:51 pm

OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Groups like the Libertarians or the Green Party have pretty much put most of their very limited eggs in the basket of running mostly for the highest of profile offices, thinking the exposure will kickstart them quickly around the country, and it never does. Liberal Democrats do the same thing, thinking running Bernie for president and having a smattering of Squad-types as being enough, when it's completely backwards from the way it really has to happen to actually truly change the path of the Democrats.


Gonna say it’s NEVER a good idea for liberals to do it on a national level. It’s why we got both Bush and Trump.


Is that actually what happened?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby NOLA » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:42 am

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby OleMissCub » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:43 am

squally1313 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:Groups like the Libertarians or the Green Party have pretty much put most of their very limited eggs in the basket of running mostly for the highest of profile offices, thinking the exposure will kickstart them quickly around the country, and it never does. Liberal Democrats do the same thing, thinking running Bernie for president and having a smattering of Squad-types as being enough, when it's completely backwards from the way it really has to happen to actually truly change the path of the Democrats.


Gonna say it’s NEVER a good idea for liberals to do it on a national level. It’s why we got both Bush and Trump.


Is that actually what happened?


Ummm yes. Remove Nader from 2000 and Stein from 2016 and those awful presidencies don't happen. I'm not exactly sure how that would even be debatable. Gore "lost" by 500 votes in Florida. Nader had 97,500 votes. If you think more of those folks would have voted for Bush than Gore I've got a bridge to sell you.

Hillary lost PA, WI, and MI by 77,744 combined votes. Stein got 132,476 votes in those states. Also no telling how many Bernie bros sat at home stewing in those states.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby squally1313 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:52 am

OleMissCub wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Gonna say it’s NEVER a good idea for liberals to do it on a national level. It’s why we got both Bush and Trump.


Is that actually what happened?


Ummm yes. Remove Nader from 2000 and Stein from 2016 and those awful presidencies don't happen. I'm not exactly sure how that would even be debatable. Gore "lost" by 500 votes in Florida. Nader had 97,500 votes. If you think more of those folks would have voted for Bush than Gore I've got a bridge to sell you.

Hillary lost PA, WI, and MI by 77,744 combined votes. Stein got 132,476 votes in those states. Also no telling how many Bernie bros sat at home stewing in those states.

Might have been misreading the part about liberals doing it. Don't think Hillary or Gore had much say in those third party candidates running, but maybe that's not what you mean. Probably shouldn't absolve two pretty terrible candidates for the sake of....criticizing Bernie supporters? But that's just me.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:38 am

OleMissCub wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
Gonna say it’s NEVER a good idea for liberals to do it on a national level. It’s why we got both Bush and Trump.


Is that actually what happened?


Ummm yes. Remove Nader from 2000 and Stein from 2016 and those awful presidencies don't happen. I'm not exactly sure how that would even be debatable. Gore "lost" by 500 votes in Florida. Nader had 97,500 votes. If you think more of those folks would have voted for Bush than Gore I've got a bridge to sell you.

Hillary lost PA, WI, and MI by 77,744 combined votes. Stein got 132,476 votes in those states. Also no telling how many Bernie bros sat at home stewing in those states.

Voters for Nader and Stein and Sanders (voters who loved him who stayed home) all skewed to the left of Gore and Hillary. That's not Lang, he skews to the center. My guess is he fails because he simply doesn't pull enough Republican support, who step in line and goose step the way they do every election for Trump/DeSantis/whomever

That being said, horsefeathers Lang. enjoy political oblivion
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Banedon » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:50 am

Bote McBoteface wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/27/forward-republicans-democrats-new-third-political-party

“Not left, not right, Forward”

I like the name, I like the motto, I like Andrew Yang. I’m sure they either wont exist come 2024 or will have have a terrible platform/candidate, or will get shut out of the debates and left off of the ballots. But right now this has some potential to be good.


It's full of former Trumpers. Pretty bad already.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby WrigleyField 22 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:45 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
OleMissCub wrote:
squally1313 wrote:
Is that actually what happened?


Ummm yes. Remove Nader from 2000 and Stein from 2016 and those awful presidencies don't happen. I'm not exactly sure how that would even be debatable. Gore "lost" by 500 votes in Florida. Nader had 97,500 votes. If you think more of those folks would have voted for Bush than Gore I've got a bridge to sell you.

Hillary lost PA, WI, and MI by 77,744 combined votes. Stein got 132,476 votes in those states. Also no telling how many Bernie bros sat at home stewing in those states.

Voters for Nader and Stein and Sanders (voters who loved him who stayed home) all skewed to the left of Gore and Hillary. That's not Lang, he skews to the center. My guess is he fails because he simply doesn't pull enough Republican support, who step in line and goose step the way they do every election for Trump/DeSantis/whomever

That being said, horsefeathers Lang. enjoy political oblivion

He may skew to the right of whoever the Dem nominee is, but thats still going to be left of thr American political compass. He's not getting significant right action. Absolute best case is he's getting never Trumpers, half who might have stayed home and half who would begrudgingly vote for Dem but now would have an out.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby SouthSideRyan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:04 pm

I cannot believe anybody still buys this bullshît
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 1:33 pm

SouthSideRyan wrote:I cannot believe anybody still buys this bullshît

Which part?
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CoolHandLuke » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:06 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I cannot believe anybody still buys this bullshît

Which part?


Probably the part about how Yang, the Lincoln Project types, political consultants, and pretty much everyone else are just in it for the grift.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Brian707 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:18 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I cannot believe anybody still buys this bullshît

Which part?



All of it
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The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:38 pm

CoolHandLuke wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
SouthSideRyan wrote:I cannot believe anybody still buys this bullshît

Which part?


Probably the part about how Yang, the Lincoln Project types, political consultants, and pretty much everyone else are just in it for the grift.

I totally get that Yang is looking at what he sees is a political opportunity to profit from. I just wasn't sure if ssr wasn't backing Yang. One line posts are confusing to me sometimes
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby CubinNY » Fri Jul 29, 2022 2:45 pm

Good thread, could probably go into a few different threads.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby NOLA » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:33 pm

I know how many of us here feel about Nate, but I thought I’d offer a little flicker of hope amongst all the doom and gloom.



Their chances of winning the Senate now stand at 55 percent. That’s up from 47 percent from forecast launch on June 30. It’s also up from 40 percent in a retroactive forecast dated back to June 1.


House forecaster now even, and generic polling has Dems up by a few points. There is momentum in the right direction.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:24 pm

Bote McBoteface wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/27/forward-republicans-democrats-new-third-political-party

“Not left, not right, Forward”

I like the name, I like the motto, I like Andrew Yang. I’m sure they either wont exist come 2024 or will have have a terrible platform/candidate


Like Andrew Yang.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:26 pm

NOLA wrote:I know how many of us here feel about Nate, but I thought I’d offer a little flicker of hope amongst all the doom and gloom.

...condensed... There is momentum in the right direction.


It wouldn't surprise me if the Jan 6 hearings helped push the needle towards the dems. If nothing else, it very likely cools enthusiasm for many republicans
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:27 pm

NOLA wrote:I know how many of us here feel about Nate, but I thought I’d offer a little flicker of hope amongst all the doom and gloom.



Their chances of winning the Senate now stand at 55 percent. That’s up from 47 percent from forecast launch on June 30. It’s also up from 40 percent in a retroactive forecast dated back to June 1.


House forecaster now even, and generic polling has Dems up by a few points. There is momentum in the right direction.


Given that we're now several elections in to polls actually typically overstating Democratic odds, and basically how all economic talk from here on out is going to be focused around whether or not we're in a recession, we need a boulder of salt with this sort of thing right now.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:31 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
Given that we're now several elections in to polls actually typically overstating Democratic odds, and basically how all economic talk from here on out is going to be focused around whether or not we're in a recession, we need a boulder of salt with this sort of thing right now.


given how disgusted Americans are with the SCOTUS and the July 6 hearings, I think there are plenty of other issues grabbing for Americans attention. Its not JUST the economy, and it could turn out to be not even mostly the economy that Americans turn out to vote on
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby Sammy Sofa » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:38 pm

minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Given that we're now several elections in to polls actually typically overstating Democratic odds, and basically how all economic talk from here on out is going to be focused around whether or not we're in a recession, we need a boulder of salt with this sort of thing right now.


given how disgusted Americans are with the SCOTUS and the July 6 hearings, I think there are plenty of other issues grabbing for Americans attention. Its not JUST the economy, and it could turn out to be not even mostly the economy that Americans turn out to vote on


It's mostly a matter of timeliness and momentum; 3+ months from now, if we continue to slide more into recession territory, that WILL dominate. Yes, it will overtake the SC anger and the 1/6 hearings, especially if the latter continues onward with nothing actually happening.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:57 pm

Sammy Sofa wrote:
minnesotacubsfan wrote:
Sammy Sofa wrote:
Given that we're now several elections in to polls actually typically overstating Democratic odds, and basically how all economic talk from here on out is going to be focused around whether or not we're in a recession, we need a boulder of salt with this sort of thing right now.


given how disgusted Americans are with the SCOTUS and the July 6 hearings, I think there are plenty of other issues grabbing for Americans attention. Its not JUST the economy, and it could turn out to be not even mostly the economy that Americans turn out to vote on


It's mostly a matter of timeliness and momentum; 3+ months from now, if we continue to slide more into recession territory, that WILL dominate. Yes, it will overtake the SC anger and the 1/6 hearings, especially if the latter continues onward with nothing actually happening.


we'll see, certainly. I dont think the Jan 6 stuff will ramp down, I think its just really starting to heat up and the DoJ now looks likely to go after Trump and his associates. And as for RvW, people are starting to wake up to very dystopian states, starting to feel the effects of what the SCOTUS has done, and I dont think that will go away or fade in the next few months. I dont see a "blue wave" by any means, but the huge republican gains that looked inevitable 6 months ago dont seem to be the future now. not at all. And, for once, I think the Dems are right to promote their "Republicans are extremest" platform. I think people across the country are starting to see that
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