Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Discussion about other teams, non-cubs players, baseball history, sabr vs scouting, etc.
User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
Superstar
Posts: 11633
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 720
x 5879

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:46 am

I always encounter fans who are under the false impression that Almora was actually good. Up until he was let go, I periodically looked at his minor league numbers in an attempt to understand from where the optimism/expectation about him came. I still can't figure it out.
1 x

chopsx9
Starter
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:22 am
x 59
x 111

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby chopsx9 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:28 am

CyHawk_Cub wrote:I always encounter fans who are under the false impression that Almora was actually good. Up until he was let go, I periodically looked at his minor league numbers in an attempt to understand from where the optimism/expectation about him came. I still can't figure it out.

I've never encountered anyone that thought Almora was actually good. He never had enough tools to be taken seriously and the ones he had never developed enough (or at all) to matter. Maybe advancing to 2nd in the 10th inning of Game 7 sucked all the potential out of him.
0 x
Stone added: "Lou's probably grumpy, because he only went 3-for-11 against me with no RBIs."

Tryptamine
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6991
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:13 pm
x 16
x 467

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Tryptamine » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:08 pm

chopsx9 wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:I always encounter fans who are under the false impression that Almora was actually good. Up until he was let go, I periodically looked at his minor league numbers in an attempt to understand from where the optimism/expectation about him came. I still can't figure it out.

I've never encountered anyone that thought Almora was actually good. He never had enough tools to be taken seriously and the ones he had never developed enough (or at all) to matter. Maybe advancing to 2nd in the 10th inning of Game 7 sucked all the potential out of him.


What was the ridiculous draft comp that I believe Harold Reynolds gave him? I believe it was either Arod or Braun, I can't remember which, but it was very obvious that those tools never existed.
0 x

CubinNY
Hall of Fame
Posts: 26911
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:52 pm
Location: Pike Road, Al
x 971
x 2092

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby CubinNY » Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:16 pm

Tryptamine wrote:
chopsx9 wrote:
CyHawk_Cub wrote:I always encounter fans who are under the false impression that Almora was actually good. Up until he was let go, I periodically looked at his minor league numbers in an attempt to understand from where the optimism/expectation about him came. I still can't figure it out.

I've never encountered anyone that thought Almora was actually good. He never had enough tools to be taken seriously and the ones he had never developed enough (or at all) to matter. Maybe advancing to 2nd in the 10th inning of Game 7 sucked all the potential out of him.


What was the ridiculous draft comp that I believe Harold Reynolds gave him? I believe it was either Arod or Braun, I can't remember which, but it was very obvious that those tools never existed.

Reynolds wasn't the only one but to a greater extent than others. At the time of the draft, a lot of people said he had the best bat-to-ball skills in the draft. He played + defense in CF. He just never developed his skills. I get what he's saying even if I don't totally buy it. Brooks Kieschnick said much of the same things and worse about the Cubs' development of players.
0 x

Bertz
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5525
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
x 1905
x 2954

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Bertz » Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:20 pm

Feels like Schwarber would be the only guy who would have a decent argument for pointing his finger at the org for his lack of development, considering he's the only one who got better after leaving.
0 x

User avatar
Cubswin11
Hall of Fame
Posts: 28934
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:17 pm
x 10201
x 6576

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Cubswin11 » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:01 pm

Bertz wrote:Feels like Schwarber would be the only guy who would have a decent argument for pointing his finger at the org for his lack of development, considering he's the only one who got better after leaving.

I’m guessing he’d blame the knee injury before anything
0 x
Screw Pitchers

User avatar
The Logan
Superstar
Posts: 16256
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:03 am
Location: Southport Corridor
x 8804
x 2791

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby The Logan » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:17 pm

Almora's hype was around his contact skills and gold glove defense. All the scouting reports, IIRC, said his defense was MLB-caliber ready straight out of the draft. And his ability to hit for contact was some of the best in the minors. He just never translated that skill to hits
0 x
Image

User avatar
Ding Dong Johnson
Crap Bag
Posts: 36919
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:42 am
Location: Durnsville
x 1232
x 9119

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:36 pm

The Logan wrote:Almora's hype was around his contact skills and gold glove defense. All the scouting reports, IIRC, said his defense was MLB-caliber ready straight out of the draft. And his ability to hit for contact was some of the best in the minors. He just never translated that skill to hits

Or good defense.
1 x
Image

NOLA
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6523
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 2323
x 1738
Contact:

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby NOLA » Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:55 am

Schwarbs with 2 more dongs tonight. That 4 in the last two days and 26 in his first 80 games.

Edit: that’s 27 HR.
Last edited by NOLA on Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x

NOLA
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 6523
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2003 3:17 am
Location: Bywater, New Orleans
x 2323
x 1738
Contact:

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby NOLA » Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:00 am

Ding Dong Johnson wrote:
The Logan wrote:Almora's hype was around his contact skills and gold glove defense. All the scouting reports, IIRC, said his defense was MLB-caliber ready straight out of the draft. And his ability to hit for contact was some of the best in the minors. He just never translated that skill to hits

Or good defense.

IIRC, it was his “intangibles” that were supposedly off the charts, but not exactly the best athlete. On defense, he was said to get great reads off the bat but was not what anyone would call fast. That WS G7 play where he stretched a hit into a double was probably everything Theo could have envisioned.
0 x

User avatar
Derwood
Stall Monitor
Posts: 76980
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 4:44 pm
Location: 375 Miles East of Wrigley
x 1863
x 4492

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Derwood » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:18 pm

Bryant is OPSing 1.045 since coming off the IL
0 x

User avatar
UMFan83
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 86196
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:42 pm
Location: Southport Ave
x 4535
x 7342
Contact:

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:09 am

A Theo drafted pitcher finally made the all star team - congrats Paul Blackburn
0 x
Win it for Fred

TomtheBombadil
Superstar
Posts: 11691
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 1234
x 1203

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:54 am

^^ Alex Lange was snubbed, I say! More opportunities will come but still, would have been nice

From The Athletic:

Soto’s 2.67 ERA makes him worthy of All-Star consideration. But did the Tigers actually have at least one even more deserving representative? The argument could certainly be made.

Alex Lange and Michael Fulmer built convincing All-Star cases of their own in the first half of the season. Soto ultimately got the nod, but let’s compare the numbers as of Sunday:

Soto: 30.1 IP, 2.67 ERA, 9.2 K/9, 4.45 BB/9, 0.4 fWAR

Lange: 33 IP, 1.91 ERA, 11.73 K/9, 4.09 BB/9, 0.7 fWAR

Fulmer: 32.2 IP, 1.93 ERA, 9.43 K/9, 2.58 BB/9, 0.7 fWAR


---

Great to see Bryant's season line coming together too...He just had or is having twins soon? Good horsefeathers
0 x
Spoiler: show
Image


"We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not-bickering." - The Shoveler

User avatar
UMFan83
Inner-Circle HOF
Posts: 86196
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:42 pm
Location: Southport Ave
x 4535
x 7342
Contact:

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby UMFan83 » Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:13 am

TomtheBombadil wrote:^^ Alex Lange was snubbed, I say! More opportunities will come but still, would have been nice

From The Athletic:

Soto’s 2.67 ERA makes him worthy of All-Star consideration. But did the Tigers actually have at least one even more deserving representative? The argument could certainly be made.

Alex Lange and Michael Fulmer built convincing All-Star cases of their own in the first half of the season. Soto ultimately got the nod, but let’s compare the numbers as of Sunday:

Soto: 30.1 IP, 2.67 ERA, 9.2 K/9, 4.45 BB/9, 0.4 fWAR

Lange: 33 IP, 1.91 ERA, 11.73 K/9, 4.09 BB/9, 0.7 fWAR

Fulmer: 32.2 IP, 1.93 ERA, 9.43 K/9, 2.58 BB/9, 0.7 fWAR


---

Great to see Bryant's season line coming together too...He just had or is having twins soon? Good horsefeathers


Wait wtf Alex Lange is a thing now? Always wondered if Theo-era Cubs were worse at drafting or developing. Seems to be some strong evidence it was the latter
0 x
Win it for Fred

User avatar
The_Achiever
All-Star
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:28 am
x 613
x 392

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby The_Achiever » Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:39 am

Regarding Almora, Theo refused to part with him in 2017 for Jussin Verlander. This was after trading Eloy and Cease for Q.

People have ragged on the Q trade enough but if he trades Almora for Verlander we might go back to back. What a disaster the post WS years were.
0 x

We Got The Whole 9
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5421
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:38 am
x 961

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:26 am

Does Harold Ramirez count?

Guy is slashing 330/379/452 for Tampa
0 x

User avatar
Andy
Hall of Fame
Posts: 34338
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:02 am
Location: West Michigan
x 1355

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Andy » Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:32 pm

The_Achiever wrote:Regarding Almora, Theo refused to part with him in 2017 for Jussin Verlander. This was after trading Eloy and Cease for Q.

People have ragged on the Q trade enough but if he trades Almora for Verlander we might go back to back. What a disaster the post WS years were.

We should have traded for Verlander but for various, um, reasons, I have reason to doubt that Verlander would have been as successful with us - or for anyone - as he has been for Houston.
0 x

TomtheBombadil
Superstar
Posts: 11691
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 1234
x 1203

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby TomtheBombadil » Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:40 pm

UMFan83 wrote:Wait wtf Alex Lange is a thing now? Always wondered if Theo-era Cubs were worse at drafting or developing. Seems to be some strong evidence it was the latter


Tbf Lange left the org with his velocity back up, better fastball shape and movement, a swing snd miss changeup, and more power on his breaking stuff (added a slider). 3 years of high stress, high volume workloads under the NCAA (an org that prioritizes winning over player development esp before this higher tech era) probably did more to throw off his development than anything the Cubs did. He’s going to have to bide more time, build up strength to get a SP opportunity eventually

He’s very much a Future kind of player through the draft. Most popular during his earliest NCAA days, gradually became less so as a payday neared, still did enough to squeak into the first round with a conservative drafting org, never had the public on his side as a pro despite an extensive resume against top competition, plenty of tools, and all his health, and now it’s a shock that this kid who also skipped no steps is looking like a potential longtime ML pitcher. It’s bleak but dudes like this keep the fire burning somehow
0 x

User avatar
CyHawk_Cub
Superstar
Posts: 11633
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:24 pm
x 720
x 5879

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby CyHawk_Cub » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:10 pm

Harold Ramirez never would have gotten regular chances with the Cubs. So yeah, that should make everyone o.k. with that whole thing.
0 x

User avatar
The_Achiever
All-Star
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:28 am
x 613
x 392

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby The_Achiever » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:22 am

Andy wrote:
The_Achiever wrote:Regarding Almora, Theo refused to part with him in 2017 for Jussin Verlander. This was after trading Eloy and Cease for Q.

People have ragged on the Q trade enough but if he trades Almora for Verlander we might go back to back. What a disaster the post WS years were.

We should have traded for Verlander but for various, um, reasons, I have reason to doubt that Verlander would have been as successful with us - or for anyone - as he has been for Houston.


Steroids? I’m in the dark on this one.
0 x

Bertz
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 5525
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:59 pm
x 1905
x 2954

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Bertz » Thu Jul 14, 2022 12:15 pm

The_Achiever wrote:
Andy wrote:
The_Achiever wrote:Regarding Almora, Theo refused to part with him in 2017 for Jussin Verlander. This was after trading Eloy and Cease for Q.

People have ragged on the Q trade enough but if he trades Almora for Verlander we might go back to back. What a disaster the post WS years were.

We should have traded for Verlander but for various, um, reasons, I have reason to doubt that Verlander would have been as successful with us - or for anyone - as he has been for Houston.


Steroids? I’m in the dark on this one.


Sticky stuff
0 x

TomtheBombadil
Superstar
Posts: 11691
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:35 pm
x 1234
x 1203

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby TomtheBombadil » Thu Jul 14, 2022 7:54 pm

Just noticed former Future Cubs legend, Isaac Paredes, was on pace for a 3 WAR season and already has 13 HRs (including a 3 HR game against Cole and the Yankees). Good stuff, think I’m a fan

Edit: Maybe 2 WAR, still good stuff
Last edited by TomtheBombadil on Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
Spoiler: show
Image


"We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not-bickering." - The Shoveler

soccer10k
Hall of Fame
Posts: 39944
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:21 pm
Location: Sacramento
x 2029

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby soccer10k » Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:41 am

Stupid Schwarber shit the bed against Pujols in the Derby.
0 x
In Theo we trust.

User avatar
Irrelevant Dude
5-Time All-Star
Posts: 7689
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:40 am
Location: In a Glass Case of Emotion
x 66
x 551

Re: RE: Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby Irrelevant Dude » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:51 am

soccer10k wrote:Stupid Schwarber shit the bed against Pujols in the Derby.
What a mess that home run derby coverage was. The cameras were all over the place and missing home runs right and left. The announcers had no clue what was going on and were calling home runs that weren't and vice versa. The announcers also seemingly kept forgetting about bonus time and talking like guys were done after 3 minutes. And I'm pretty sure Pujols' 13th home run in the first round (which ended up being the tieing home run) came seconds after time had expired. Julio Rodriguez was fun to watch, but other than that it was a rather uneventful home run derby.
0 x

User avatar
PackLandVA
All-Star
Posts: 3260
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:42 pm
Location: Baking in Southern Arizona
x 971
x 679

Re: Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

Postby PackLandVA » Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:54 am

Much like the Slam Dunk Contest, the HR Derby became repetitively boring after about the third or fourth iteration. Wash, rinse, repeat. Yawn.
1 x
Sticks the landing!!!


Return to “General Baseball Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests