Guess what a guy who used to play for the Cubs did this time...

[TomtheBombadil]

Joe Madden going off on the nerds and geeks giving him advice.

Many apologies in advance, slow and wet day:

Tbf not only was he once considered a nerd and geek of this sport but that crowd sucks. If you found out the majority (interacting with Maddon) were inherited wealth from the Ivys who never struggled like we might imagine (being loooowly nerds and geeks and all) plus don’t care about baseball or winning so much? That their favorite aspect of working in the sport is all the biological, social, and financial data on all these different demographics or something similarly weird intended to gain leverage/control? Who really even besides their bosses has benefitted from this silent shift to where even the Maddons and Epsteins in baseball aren’t nerd enough for FOs? Like those guys *love* winning baseball games, understand the Value of data, so what’s the real agenda pushing them out?

These nerds and geeks are just people/employees, very fallible

Edit: Oh yay a fresh page

[CubinNY]

Joe Madden going off on the nerds and geeks giving him advice.

Many apologies in advance, slow and wet day:

Tbf not only was he once considered a nerd and geek of this sport but that crowd sucks. If you found out the majority (interacting with Maddon) were inherited wealth from the Ivys who never struggled like we might imagine (being loooowly nerds and geeks and all) plus don’t care about baseball or winning so much? That their favorite aspect of working in the sport is all the biological, social, and financial data on all these different demographics or something similarly weird intended to gain leverage/control? Who really even besides their bosses has benefitted from this silent shift to where even the Maddons and Epsteins in baseball aren’t nerd enough for FOs? Like those guys *love* winning baseball games, understand the Value of data, so what’s the real agenda pushing them out?

These nerds and geeks are just people/employees, very fallible

Edit: Oh yay a fresh page

I never understand what your point is, so I don't know if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you. My opinion is that the entire focus should be on winning baseball games. I think there is something to be said about that in relation to maximizing roster efficiency (i.e., cost), versus finding the right combination of guys to win the most games. I'm not sold on the cost/benefit stuff, like translating WAR into hypothetical dollars, and maybe not even on the concept of WAR in general in the sense that a hypothetical SS is inherently more valuable than a hypothetical LF, for example. Although a hypothetical LF is less scarce than a hypothetical SS. However, the use of data is fundamental to winning baseball games. It's been done since forever. The data is just different now. I get what Madden is saying, he comes off as sour grapy though. I don't know that I would not like it if I was given a job and then not allowed to do it as I saw fit by my bosses.

[mul21]

I mean, there's not. Most managers aren't going to have enough time and brainpower to process everything they're being given and will have to have some things spelled out for them. Who to start against what pitchers, what guys make sense to PH for in what situations, etc. I think the game has clearly passed him by and he needs to go be a broadcaster or coach in the minors where that stuff isn't as important.

[Bertz]

Joe Maddon has for a long time had a deep deep insecurity around admitting fault or error, and IMO this is all born out of him not being able to deal with the increasing levels of scrutiny he's encountering. It has nothing to do with data or numbers or paralysis by analysis or anything else. Instead it has everything to do with people increasingly pushing back and asking "wait why would we do that?" rather than just trusting his authority and laughing at his weird metaphors.

[UMFan83]

I didn't have too much of an issue with the comments. It sounds like he understands the importance of analytics and data, he just doesn't want people in the dugout dispensing that advice as he'd prefer that he and his coaching staff discern the info and distribute it. BUT while I understand it, I don't agree with his take on it. As mul21 said, there's just no way that a manager or their coaching staff can absorb all that information and make sure it gets to the players. Easy to be lost in translation or forgotten altogether. But this doesn't necessarily seem like an attack on analytics, just about the role of the manager in today's game. It's not an insane opinion, it just seems to go against the direction baseball is headed.

You had a very solid career Joe, but it sounds like your managerial days are over.

[17 Seconds]

joe never liked being questioned on anything. they won the ws and he still couldn't admit that he bungled the bullpen at the end. i'm thankful for what he accomplished here, but his personality is so very different from what i thought it was before he came.

[TomtheBombadil]

^^ I agree with this (Bertz's post on him not taking scrutiny), probably not uncommon from people decades into positions that rely on soft skills, but suspect all that's happened is we've given that same open lane to more terrible people/entities off screen because of their weird data

I'll also throw out that FOs don't' have *exactly* the same agenda as managers: they care a whole lot more about payroll, service time, options, arb eligibility, contract situations etc...Playing time's extremely valuable to these players, why not look to have a little more control?

[champaignchris]

I think Maddon is a more strategic manager than tactical one. He thinks on a series to series basis rather than an at bat to at bat basis. He’s more interested in making sure guys get rest or at bats, stay refreshed and focused, have opportunities to succeed when first called up, and so on. “Soft people skills” as stated upthread.

It’s one or the reasons he’s so much better at being a regular season manager than a playoff manager when each individual at bat carries so much more meaning.

I think most charitably, he’s trying to remind everyone that the players are humans and not robots. You can’t just dump a bunch of data in them and expect things to work out.

I think least charitably, he’s that guy from Office Space trying to answer, “What exactly would you say you do do here?” “I’m a [expletive] people person!”

[TomtheBombadil]

Anyone else see Eloy’s solid season? .314/.378/.507 with a sub-20 K rate and league averageish CSW% in 251 PAs for 1.7 fWAR…Stay healthy and 2023 could be a huge year

[Derwood]

Anyone else see Eloy’s solid season? .314/.378/.507 with a sub-20 K rate and league averageish CSW% in 251 PAs for 1.7 fWAR…Stay healthy and 2023 could be a huge year

“Stay healthy” ha ha ha ha ha

[TomtheBombadil]

#20…2.4 fWAR/2.6 rWAR entering tn… Maybe in a little over his head (.297 xwOBA), doesn’t hit the ball hard (max EVs are ~ lg avg IIRC) but does get it into the air…Not half bad…I thinking take all the MLB playing time he can get, then some monster years in the KBO, then a triumphant return to the MLs as prob a 3B, and then close it out with an even more triumphant run in the LMB

[TomtheBombadil]

[Bertz]

[champaignchris]

I’m not saying the Cubs should have signed Dex to the contract he got with the Cardinals.

However, a major part of why the Cubs were never able to repeat is that they were never able to replace Dex in either the field or at the top of the batting order.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

2016 would have been a blast had he signed that contract with Baltimore.

[17 Seconds]

this mf really hit a leadoff home run in game 7 of the world series and then rode off into the sunset

[itisallpartoftheplan]

this mf really hit a leadoff home run in game 7 of the world series and then rode off into the sunset

I think he twerked on SNL then road off into the sunset

[UMFan83]

[Tryptamine]

https://twitter.com/BleacherNation/status/1620915580504244224

A small bright spot in a channel filled with nothing but bad Dempster impersonations and Ricketts loving company men.

[NewUserName]

https://twitter.com/BleacherNation/status/1620915580504244224

A small bright spot in a channel filled with nothing but bad Dempster impersonations and Ricketts loving company men.

what is going to prevent Dex from being a Ricketts loving company man?

[Bull]

https://twitter.com/BleacherNation/status/1620915580504244224

A small bright spot in a channel filled with nothing but bad Dempster impersonations and Ricketts loving company men.

what is going to prevent Dex from being a Ricketts loving company man?

Plot twist: he already is. Bum-bum-bum.

[Bertz]

Fergie is a treasure

[UMFan83]

This seems fishy. I’m assuming an offer like that buys out the rest of his arb years right? He had 4 years of control after 2018 and he made $22.4m in those 4 seasons. While you can’t know for certain Willson would make $10m in 2022, you can probably project something like this coming off an All-star season. Either the cubs lowballed him to an embarrassing degree or this isn’t right (or I’m missing a detail)

[Bertz]

https://twitter.com/CubsZone/status/1627750634018549761?s=20

This seems fishy. I’m assuming an offer like that buys out the rest of his arb years right? He had 4 years of control after 2018 and he made $22.4m in those 4 seasons. While you can’t know for certain Willson would make $10m in 2022, you can probably project something like this coming off an All-star season. Either the cubs lowballed him to an embarrassing degree or this isn’t right (or I’m missing a detail)

[CyHawk_Cub]