The Cardinals

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby 17 Seconds » Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:05 pm

what a fun season for the cardinals
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:45 am

Pixie Dust Supreme hit HR 700
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Andy » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:51 am

Good for him. He'd have passed Bonds by now if he'd never left St. Louis and no one will ever be able to tell me different.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby soccer10k » Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:02 am

Two of the players the Cards gave up for Marcell Ozuna were Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen.

Ozuna was coming off an age 26 season of 5.6 bWAR and a .924 OPS and I have no idea how Alcantara and Gallen were regarded as prospects so this isn't an "LOL Cards" type of post (because the Cubs have Cease/Eloy for Quintana) but I just didn't remember who they sent to Miami in the trade.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby mul21 » Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:01 pm

soccer10k wrote:Two of the players the Cards gave up for Marcell Ozuna were Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen.

Ozuna was coming off an age 26 season of 5.6 bWAR and a .924 OPS and I have no idea how Alcantara and Gallen were regarded as prospects so this isn't an "LOL Cards" type of post (because the Cubs have Cease/Eloy for Quintana) but I just didn't remember who they sent to Miami in the trade.


Speaking of Quintana, he's starting game 1 for them today, which WTF?
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby squally1313 » Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:26 pm

mul21 wrote:
soccer10k wrote:Two of the players the Cards gave up for Marcell Ozuna were Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen.

Ozuna was coming off an age 26 season of 5.6 bWAR and a .924 OPS and I have no idea how Alcantara and Gallen were regarded as prospects so this isn't an "LOL Cards" type of post (because the Cubs have Cease/Eloy for Quintana) but I just didn't remember who they sent to Miami in the trade.


Speaking of Quintana, he's starting game 1 for them today, which WTF?

17th best pitcher in baseball this year per fWAR. Classic Quintana 6-7 record. I guess the thinking is trying to slow down Schwarber and Harper, though from what I can tell the Phillies are actually better against lefties than righties, so who knows.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Fri Oct 07, 2022 4:06 pm

mul21 wrote:
soccer10k wrote:Two of the players the Cards gave up for Marcell Ozuna were Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen.

Ozuna was coming off an age 26 season of 5.6 bWAR and a .924 OPS and I have no idea how Alcantara and Gallen were regarded as prospects so this isn't an "LOL Cards" type of post (because the Cubs have Cease/Eloy for Quintana) but I just didn't remember who they sent to Miami in the trade.


Speaking of Quintana, he's starting game 1 for them today, which WTF?


I completely missed when he moved from Pittsburgh to St. Louis
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Ding Dong Johnson » Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:16 pm

Derwood wrote:
mul21 wrote:
soccer10k wrote:Two of the players the Cards gave up for Marcell Ozuna were Sandy Alcantara and Zac Gallen.

Ozuna was coming off an age 26 season of 5.6 bWAR and a .924 OPS and I have no idea how Alcantara and Gallen were regarded as prospects so this isn't an "LOL Cards" type of post (because the Cubs have Cease/Eloy for Quintana) but I just didn't remember who they sent to Miami in the trade.


Speaking of Quintana, he's starting game 1 for them today, which WTF?


I completely missed when he moved from Pittsburgh to St. Louis

I missed when he was with Pittsburgh
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Cubswin11 » Fri Oct 07, 2022 7:54 pm

Q had a sub 3 ERA and FIP this year, of course
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Andy » Fri Oct 07, 2022 8:28 pm

Cubswin11 wrote:Q had a sub 3 ERA and FIP this year, of course

Only with St. Louis though. His ERA was 3.50 with Pittsburgh and 2.01 with St. Louis. FIP was 3.23/2.60.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Old Style » Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:57 pm

Nice choke job. Love to see the "best fans in baseball" leave early when they couldn't even fill up the stadium. Heard they were selling $1 tickets too. Lol.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby cl smooth » Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:41 pm

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby squally1313 » Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:57 pm

Good
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Bertz » Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:37 pm

The Cards are now about $10M below last year's payroll, and they still have to deal with the Nolan Arenado situation. Mozeliak has already indicated that they will be increasing payroll, but unless it's a very healthy bump you're probably only looking at one or two more moves of substance. Something like Contreras and re-signing Quintana?
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby abmillis » Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:39 pm

Surely one of these years Wainwright has to tank, right?
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby 17 Seconds » Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:07 pm

abmillis wrote:Surely one of these years Wainwright has to tank, right?


i thought we ended his career in the 2015 playoffs
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby minnesotacubsfan » Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:34 pm

17 Seconds wrote:
abmillis wrote:Surely one of these years Wainwright has to tank, right?


i thought we ended his career in the 2015 playoffs


the Cubs dont have their version of Corey Wootten to pull that off
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:09 am

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby mias_tisg » Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:16 am

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:26 pm

There was some Cubs Twitter gnashing of teeth about Arenado not opting out to at least extract a bigger deal from the Cardinals, and while that wouldn't have surprised me I don't quite get the shock. Yes, he's coming off an incredible year, but he's also turning 32 at the start of next season. Is another team going to give him 6 years at his current or greater AAV? I'd argue almost certainly not. Could he have upped the amount he gets over 5 years? Probably, but not without its risks. While someone probably could've gotten to about 5/160 over the course of free agency, that's only 15 million difference in absolute terms, and even less when you consider TVM given his current deal is front-loaded. And most importantly, you don't know what team that will be. It's clear from hearing Arenado talk that he places high value on being on a contender after 8 years in the Colorado wilderness, so the idea of extracting ~10% more just to potentially go do so for the Rangers or w/e isn't terribly appealing.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Cubswin11 » Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:00 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:There was some Cubs Twitter gnashing of teeth about Arenado not opting out to at least extract a bigger deal from the Cardinals, and while that wouldn't have surprised me I don't quite get the shock. Yes, he's coming off an incredible year, but he's also turning 32 at the start of next season. Is another team going to give him 6 years at his current or greater AAV? I'd argue almost certainly not. Could he have upped the amount he gets over 5 years? Probably, but not without its risks. While someone probably could've gotten to about 5/160 over the course of free agency, that's only 15 million difference in absolute terms, and even less when you consider TVM given his current deal is front-loaded. And most importantly, you don't know what team that will be. It's clear from hearing Arenado talk that he places high value on being on a contender after 8 years in the Colorado wilderness, so the idea of extracting ~10% more just to potentially go do so for the Rangers or w/e isn't terribly appealing.

You also have all of Corre, Judge, deGrom, JV, Rodon, Diaz, Turner, Swanson and Xander. All of whom teams may value more/prefer to spend on (especially the SS who are all younger and can play 3B as well). Some team may prefer spending on pitching or doing Judge.

There’s only so much money out there, don’t know if opting out of $150 mil is worth the risk to maybe get another $20-30 mil or so and there’s downside risk he may have to settle for less if teams use money in other ways. Plus if he had to “settle” for a shorter term AAV deal, like say 3/80, is he sure he can get another $80 million+ in 3 years when he’s 35 to make more overall money vs this contract? Yeah sure time value of money, etc. taking more money sooner. But it’s potentially leaving a lot of money on the table if that second deal wouldn’t come.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby mul21 » Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:34 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:There was some Cubs Twitter gnashing of teeth about Arenado not opting out to at least extract a bigger deal from the Cardinals, and while that wouldn't have surprised me I don't quite get the shock. Yes, he's coming off an incredible year, but he's also turning 32 at the start of next season. Is another team going to give him 6 years at his current or greater AAV? I'd argue almost certainly not. Could he have upped the amount he gets over 5 years? Probably, but not without its risks. While someone probably could've gotten to about 5/160 over the course of free agency, that's only 15 million difference in absolute terms, and even less when you consider TVM given his current deal is front-loaded. And most importantly, you don't know what team that will be. It's clear from hearing Arenado talk that he places high value on being on a contender after 8 years in the Colorado wilderness, so the idea of extracting ~10% more just to potentially go do so for the Rangers or w/e isn't terribly appealing.


I think the bigger shock was the fact that he's just foregoing the $20 million he would have gotten from Colorado if he opted out. That money now goes to the Cards to pay the rest of his deal. He really only would have had to get a contract exactly like what he already has to increase his intake by $20 million. Just seems like an odd move for someone who clearly tried to max out what he was getting previously. Maybe he just likes being in the land of the unvaxxed and not getting a ration of horsefeathers for it too.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Transmogrified Tiger » Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:28 pm

mul21 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:There was some Cubs Twitter gnashing of teeth about Arenado not opting out to at least extract a bigger deal from the Cardinals, and while that wouldn't have surprised me I don't quite get the shock. Yes, he's coming off an incredible year, but he's also turning 32 at the start of next season. Is another team going to give him 6 years at his current or greater AAV? I'd argue almost certainly not. Could he have upped the amount he gets over 5 years? Probably, but not without its risks. While someone probably could've gotten to about 5/160 over the course of free agency, that's only 15 million difference in absolute terms, and even less when you consider TVM given his current deal is front-loaded. And most importantly, you don't know what team that will be. It's clear from hearing Arenado talk that he places high value on being on a contender after 8 years in the Colorado wilderness, so the idea of extracting ~10% more just to potentially go do so for the Rangers or w/e isn't terribly appealing.


I think the bigger shock was the fact that he's just foregoing the $20 million he would have gotten from Colorado if he opted out. That money now goes to the Cards to pay the rest of his deal. He really only would have had to get a contract exactly like what he already has to increase his intake by $20 million. Just seems like an odd move for someone who clearly tried to max out what he was getting previously. Maybe he just likes being in the land of the unvaxxed and not getting a ration of horsefeathers for it too.


I haven't seen anything indicating Arenado would've gotten more for opting out like that. He has 20 million in deferred 2021 salary he's owed, but that deferral isn't on top of his previous salaries, it's overdue salary from years already past. Is there another 20 million that Cot's doesn't seem to be referencing?
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby mul21 » Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:07 pm

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:
mul21 wrote:
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:There was some Cubs Twitter gnashing of teeth about Arenado not opting out to at least extract a bigger deal from the Cardinals, and while that wouldn't have surprised me I don't quite get the shock. Yes, he's coming off an incredible year, but he's also turning 32 at the start of next season. Is another team going to give him 6 years at his current or greater AAV? I'd argue almost certainly not. Could he have upped the amount he gets over 5 years? Probably, but not without its risks. While someone probably could've gotten to about 5/160 over the course of free agency, that's only 15 million difference in absolute terms, and even less when you consider TVM given his current deal is front-loaded. And most importantly, you don't know what team that will be. It's clear from hearing Arenado talk that he places high value on being on a contender after 8 years in the Colorado wilderness, so the idea of extracting ~10% more just to potentially go do so for the Rangers or w/e isn't terribly appealing.


I think the bigger shock was the fact that he's just foregoing the $20 million he would have gotten from Colorado if he opted out. That money now goes to the Cards to pay the rest of his deal. He really only would have had to get a contract exactly like what he already has to increase his intake by $20 million. Just seems like an odd move for someone who clearly tried to max out what he was getting previously. Maybe he just likes being in the land of the unvaxxed and not getting a ration of horsefeathers for it too.


I haven't seen anything indicating Arenado would've gotten more for opting out like that. He has 20 million in deferred 2021 salary he's owed, but that deferral isn't on top of his previous salaries, it's overdue salary from years already past. Is there another 20 million that Cot's doesn't seem to be referencing?


Yeah, it's weird thing that Brett mentioned in his write up. There's a $20 million payment that the Rockies have to fork over. If he opts out, it goes to him, if he doesn't it, goes to the Cards to pay his salary. That's on top of the $20 million deferred from 21 and the $30 million deferred over the next 10 years that he gets later.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby TruffleShuffle » Fri Nov 11, 2022 1:47 am

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