The Cardinals

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby NOLA » Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:10 pm



It gets worse.
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We Got The Whole 9
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:42 am

Jordan Hicks threw 22 pitches... to one batter. 10 of those pitches were 99+, eventually the guy walked. Didn't even get ball 3 until pitch 20.

He's not gonna last. It's so painfully obvious.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby The Logan » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:19 pm

We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Jordan Hicks threw 22 pitches... to one batter. 10 of those pitches were 99+, eventually the guy walked. Didn't even get ball 3 until pitch 20.

He's not gonna last. It's so painfully obvious.


Without knowing any more details than what you just said, why do you suggest that he's not gonna make it? It just sounds like he faced an annoying batter who fouled everything off but his velocity was fine. I mean outside of being a hard thrower whose arm is gonna fall off eventually like every other high-velocity pitcher.
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Re: RE: Re: The Cardinals

Postby We Got The Whole 9 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:58 pm

The Logan wrote:
We Got The Whole 9 wrote:Jordan Hicks threw 22 pitches... to one batter. 10 of those pitches were 99+, eventually the guy walked. Didn't even get ball 3 until pitch 20.

He's not gonna last. It's so painfully obvious.


Without knowing any more details than what you just said, why do you suggest that he's not gonna make it? It just sounds like he faced an annoying batter who fouled everything off but his velocity was fine. I mean outside of being a hard thrower whose arm is gonna fall off eventually like every other high-velocity pitcher.
Honestly, nothing. Just talking horsefeathers.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby sweetpeteman » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:55 pm

I would theorize that if he's not going to make it (or at least, isn't going be all that special), it's because despite throwing 100+, batters don't seem to have that much trouble making contact, especially on pitches in the zone.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby 17 Seconds » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:31 pm

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby d_money » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:40 pm

17 Seconds wrote:https://twitter.com/Ben_Fred/status/1376615046009081858?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1376651626992242695%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html1376651626992242695

Is the 85% based on the 40 man or MLB roster?
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Cubswin11 » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:46 pm

d_money wrote:
17 Seconds wrote:https://twitter.com/Ben_Fred/status/1376615046009081858?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1376651626992242695%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html1376651626992242695

Is the 85% based on the 40 man or MLB roster?

Would assume it’s 40 man or at least opening day roster + alt site guys since there’s going to be a lot of movement there.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby itisallpartoftheplan » Fri May 28, 2021 12:00 am

Does anyone know a link or a picture of that program or magazine cover that the Cardinals had where they gave themselves credit for winning the nl central in 2001 even though the Astros did?
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Banedon » Fri May 28, 2021 1:53 pm

itisallpartoftheplan wrote:Does anyone know a link or a picture of that program or magazine cover that the Cardinals had where they gave themselves credit for winning the nl central in 2001 even though the Astros did?


Image
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby itisallpartoftheplan » Fri May 28, 2021 8:38 pm

Banedon wrote:
itisallpartoftheplan wrote:Does anyone know a link or a picture of that program or magazine cover that the Cardinals had where they gave themselves credit for winning the nl central in 2001 even though the Astros did?


Image


That real?? Wow!
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby itisallpartoftheplan » Fri May 28, 2021 8:45 pm

Banedon wrote:
itisallpartoftheplan wrote:Does anyone know a link or a picture of that program or magazine cover that the Cardinals had where they gave themselves credit for winning the nl central in 2001 even though the Astros did?


Image




Found the program! The sign might be better since it’s on their stadium!
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:42 am

Jack Flaherty out “for some time” with oblique

You hate to see it
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:17 pm

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby CubinNY » Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:48 am

Got swept at home 4 games by the Reds.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby soccer10k » Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:08 pm

Cards have walked 26 batters with the bases loaded this year, after walking 4 with the bases loaded in one inning yesterday. Major league record is 28.

They've actually been really good overall with the bases loaded, with the lowest BA and 2nd lowest SLG allowed. However, they’ve allowed the 4th most runs because they’ve faced 171 hitters with the bases loaded, 16 more hitters than the second place team and 41 more than third.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby soccer10k » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:42 am

Welp this settles it. Molina officially has no shot at making the HOF.

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby NonProfitCow » Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:27 am

He'll make it in on the 2nd or 3rd ballot.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Andy » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:48 pm

It's ridiculous that he will get in, but he will hardly be the worst player to ever get in largely because he had the good fortune to be on teams with a bunch of players way better than he is, so whatever I guess
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby UMFan83 » Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:24 pm

Andy wrote:It's ridiculous that he will get in, but he will hardly be the worst player to ever get in largely because he had the good fortune to be on teams with a bunch of players way better than he is, so whatever I guess


He had a HOF like 5 year run from 2008-2012, I think he approached 8 WAR seasons a couple of times. But yeah outside of that he's been anywhere from decent to above average. I almost feel like the media has forced this narrative so much that it went from 'should Yadi be in the HOF' to 'Yadi will definitely be in the HOF' over the last couple of years, and its not like hes done much in the last 3 years to improve his candidacy.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Derwood » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:08 pm

The dude has been playing for 18 horsefeathering seasons and his counting stats are hilariously bad. Barely 2000 hits, less than 1000 RBI, only 168 HR, career OPS+ of 97, career 55.3 fWAR (propped up entirely by defense)...
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby grassbass » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:01 pm

Derwood wrote:The dude has been playing for 18 horsefeathering seasons and his counting stats are hilariously bad. Barely 2000 hits, less than 1000 RBI, only 168 HR, career OPS+ of 97, career 55.3 fWAR (propped up entirely by defense)...


I'm not saying whether he belongs or not, but I looked up some career rankings on Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference, and here's what I've found:

Case for him:
He's 10th all-time in fWAR among catchers. As Derwood pointed out, that is LARGELY due to his defense. According to Fangraphs, he's tops in Defensive Runs above Average (380.4) all-time among catchers...with a fairly significant advantage over I-Rod, who is second at 320. So it's not just that he's really good defensively, he's arguably the best ever at that position.

Baseball-Reference paints a slightly different picture, giving I-Rod 29.6 DWAR and Molina 26.3.

However you slice it, he's still one of the best defensively ever at that position.

Case against him:
If you look at the top 60 catchers by fWAR (possibly more, since I didn't go to page 3 of that list), Molina has the second worst Offensive Runs above Average (-106.3) of the entire group. The only one in that group that is worse is Bob Boone (-186.8), and he clocks in at 38th all-time in fWAR among catchers. For context, Russell Martin is 11th all-time in fWAR among catchers at 55.2, and he's at 13.6 Offensive Runs above Average, while Brian McCann is 12th in fWAR at 54.2 with 24.3 Offensive Runs above Average.

For even more context, a lot of people say that Ozzie Smith did not have the offensive profile of a Hall of Famer. Like Molina, Smith is tops all-time at his position in Defensive Runs above Average (and he's tops among ALL players in DWAR at 44.2 according to Baseball Reference). However, Smith was at -69.4 Offensive Runs above Average, markedly better than Molina.
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby NewUserName » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:45 am

grassbass wrote:
Derwood wrote:The dude has been playing for 18 horsefeathering seasons and his counting stats are hilariously bad. Barely 2000 hits, less than 1000 RBI, only 168 HR, career OPS+ of 97, career 55.3 fWAR (propped up entirely by defense)...


I'm not saying whether he belongs or not, but I looked up some career rankings on Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference, and here's what I've found:

Case for him:
He's 10th all-time in fWAR among catchers. As Derwood pointed out, that is LARGELY due to his defense. According to Fangraphs, he's tops in Defensive Runs above Average (380.4) all-time among catchers...with a fairly significant advantage over I-Rod, who is second at 320. So it's not just that he's really good defensively, he's arguably the best ever at that position.

Baseball-Reference paints a slightly different picture, giving I-Rod 29.6 DWAR and Molina 26.3.

However you slice it, he's still one of the best defensively ever at that position.

Case against him:
If you look at the top 60 catchers by fWAR (possibly more, since I didn't go to page 3 of that list), Molina has the second worst Offensive Runs above Average (-106.3) of the entire group. The only one in that group that is worse is Bob Boone (-186.8), and he clocks in at 38th all-time in fWAR among catchers. For context, Russell Martin is 11th all-time in fWAR among catchers at 55.2, and he's at 13.6 Offensive Runs above Average, while Brian McCann is 12th in fWAR at 54.2 with 24.3 Offensive Runs above Average.

For even more context, a lot of people say that Ozzie Smith did not have the offensive profile of a Hall of Famer. Like Molina, Smith is tops all-time at his position in Defensive Runs above Average (and he's tops among ALL players in DWAR at 44.2 according to Baseball Reference). However, Smith was at -69.4 Offensive Runs above Average, markedly better than Molina.


I think Molina is getting in, and it will have nothing to do with stats. He has been over rated by the baseball pundits for 18 yrs. It will be something along the lines of "Molina brings an aspect to the game that cannot be measured."
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Re: The Cardinals

Postby The Logan » Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:41 pm

Foolish Baseball just did a whole episode on him that talks about both sides. And both sides are right, which makes him a very peculiar case for and against his inclusion in the HOF, though ultimately he determined he's one of the best catchers of all-time, so they think he's a HOF'er.

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Re: The Cardinals

Postby Elon Musk » Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:25 pm

i've long ago stopped caring about HoF debates. Players with borderline statistical resumes but strong narrative/storyline/reputation ... let them in. i dont care.
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